Bar Owner & Concealed Carry

[ZingZang]

I have a student who will be in an upcoming Concealed Carry class, and she is the legal owner of a bar -- can the owner of a bar carry concealed on their premises?

 

[Leadfoot]

§1379.3 Section N; Subsection 10 reads as follows:

N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.


In other words, No.

ETA: A quick call to Sgt. Revis, LSP Concealed Handgun Permit Division will give you a definative answer. (225) 925-4867

NEVER take for granted the information you read on the internet is true.

 

[Emperor]

§1379.3 Section N; Subsection 10 reads as follows:

N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.


In other words, No.

I guess the temptation to shoot your patrons for being drunk is the main reason why the bar's proprietor can't carry to protect his/her life, property, or place of business.

 

[Tim67]

RS 14:95.5

§95.5. "Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.

B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties. "

One law says no; one law says yes. We need to work on the legislature to clean this up.

 

[Leadfoot]

RS 14:95.5

§95.5. "Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.

B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties. "

One law says no; one law says yes. We need to work on the legislature to clean this up.

I was looking for that statute, because I thought it existed but couldn't remember. It does clearly contradict 1379.3, thats why I ETA the call to LSP.

 

[Emperor]

§1379.3 Section N; Subsection 10 reads as follows:

N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.


In other words, No.

ETA: A quick call to Sgt. Revis, LSP Concealed Handgun Permit Division will give you a definative answer. (225) 925-4867

NEVER take for granted the information you read on the internet is true.

RS 14:95.5

§95.5. "Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.

B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties. "

One law says no; one law says yes. We need to work on the legislature to clean this up.

 

[Tim67]

The "Illegal carrying of weapons" statute and the CHP statute have several conflicts.

 

[CEHollier]

RS 14:95.5

§95.5. "Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.

B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties. "

One law says no; one law says yes. We need to work on the legislature to clean this up.

Excellent find. I wonder what Dan would say?

 

[Bradb4178]

If you are going into a bar you can not carry or have one on your person. If you own the bar or are an employee of a bar you are allowed to have one on your property or person i believe. That is what some bar owners have told me. So pretty much if you dont own the bar then you cant have one.

 

[Emperor]

Excellent find. I wonder what Dan would say?

I hope he would say, "If you are the owner at the bar carrying and the police come in and find you CC'ing, you should tell them you are abiding by RS 14:95.5."

 

[ZingZang]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses -- looks like there is some "gray area" on this one. I'll call Sgt. Revis to get his take and will post the response.

 

[ZingZang]

Just called -- he's on vacation until Monday! More to follow...

 

[SpeedRacer]

I would assume whichever law grants more rights would supercede the other. Otherwise, how could the DA press charges that contradicts a clearly written law on the books.

 

[Bearco]

I am not an attorney. More importantly, I'm not your attorney. The below should not be seen as legal advice. You should contact a competent attorney in your area to seek legal advice.

The way I see it is:

RS 40:1379.3, which allows concealed carry, does not allow you to carry in a bar. Therefore, it is void for all other purposes not described in RS 40:1379.3
Places that are not allowed will fall subject to RS 14:95, Illegal Carrying of Weapons, which bans all concealed carrying of a weapon.
RS 14:95.5 does allow the possession by the "owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties." This law does not say anything about allowing concealed carry.

RS 14:95 does not make exceptions to private places or property. This means it is illegal for even the property owner to conceal carry in his own bar, but he may still legally keep a firearm non-concealed.

With the above said, it is private property and he might be able to win after a lengthy and expensive court battle. But, that does not change the fact that the way the law is currently written, it is illegal to conceal carry inside of a bar.

 

[Tim67]

Being a state law, isn't the Attorney General the one who will decide whether there's a case to prosecute? Seems like he'd be a good one to ask.

 

[LongGoneDays]

Well that certainly is a head scratcher. Based on what I've seen, I would have to say that technically it is illegal.
Notice how the law says YOU cannot carry into a court house, but says "except for a judge may carry in his court room"...

It doesn't say "you may not carry in an establishment that serves alcohol except for a bar owner may carry in his honkytonk".

 

[deafdave3]

I am not an attorney. More importantly, I'm not your attorney. The below should not be seen as legal advice. You should contact a competent attorney in your area to seek legal advice.

The way I see it is:

RS 40:1379.3, which allows concealed carry, does not allow you to carry in a bar. Therefore, it is void for all other purposes not described in RS 40:1379.3
Places that are not allowed will fall subject to RS 14:95, Illegal Carrying of Weapons, which bans all concealed carrying of a weapon.
RS 14:95.5 does allow the possession by the "owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties." This law does not say anything about allowing concealed carry.

RS 14:95 does not make exceptions to private places or property. This means it is illegal for even the property owner to conceal carry in his own bar, but he may still legally keep a firearm non-concealed.

With the above said, it is private property and he might be able to win after a lengthy and expensive court battle. But, that does not change the fact that the way the law is currently written, it is illegal to conceal carry inside of a bar.

I am not an attorney.

After reading all that, you should be.

 

[vern10mm]

I am not an attorney. More importantly, I'm not your attorney. The below should not be seen as legal advice. You should contact a competent attorney in your area to seek legal advice.

The way I see it is:

RS 40:1379.3, which allows concealed carry, does not allow you to carry in a bar. Therefore, it is void for all other purposes not described in RS 40:1379.3
Places that are not allowed will fall subject to RS 14:95, Illegal Carrying of Weapons, which bans all concealed carrying of a weapon.
RS 14:95.5 does allow the possession by the "owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties." This law does not say anything about allowing concealed carry.

RS 14:95 does not make exceptions to private places or property. This means it is illegal for even the property owner to conceal carry in his own bar, but he may still legally keep a firearm non-concealed.

With the above said, it is private property and he might be able to win after a lengthy and expensive court battle. But, that does not change the fact that the way the law is currently written, it is illegal to conceal carry inside of a bar.

I agree. You make a lot more sense than some of the other people here who fancy themselves instructors.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I am not an attorney. More importantly, I'm not your attorney. The below should not be seen as legal advice. You should contact a competent attorney in your area to seek legal advice.

The way I see it is:

RS 40:1379.3, which allows concealed carry, does not allow you to carry in a bar. Therefore, it is void for all other purposes not described in RS 40:1379.3
Places that are not allowed will fall subject to RS 14:95, Illegal Carrying of Weapons, which bans all concealed carrying of a weapon.
RS 14:95.5 does allow the possession by the "owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties." This law does not say anything about allowing concealed carry.

RS 14:95 does not make exceptions to private places or property. This means it is illegal for even the property owner to conceal carry in his own bar, but he may still legally keep a firearm non-concealed.

With the above said, it is private property and he might be able to win after a lengthy and expensive court battle. But, that does not change the fact that the way the law is currently written, it is illegal to conceal carry inside of a bar.

Well, I AM a lawyer and I concurr with your assessment.

 

[dawg23]

One law says no; one law says yes.

One statute refers to concealed carry in a bar. The other refers to possession in a bar.

Obviously the owner can possess a gun is his bar. The gray area appears to be whether or not an owner can carry concealed in his bar.

Yeah, Sgt. Reavis is the best source for an answer.

Being a state law, isn't the Attorney General the one who will decide whether there's a case to prosecute?

No, it would be the DA.