Black powder accuracy

[tallguy606]

Went to the Chalmette Battlefield yesterday for the Battle of New Orleans reenactment. Lots of guys in period costume with their smoothbore muskets, or rifles. One reenactor (American) had his 1804 .54 rifle, same model used by Lewis and Clark, and was telling a group of schoolkids that he could hit a man every time at 300 yards, and a man's head at 200 yards. Not that these kids had any conception of how far that is, but there is NO WAY this could be true. I used to shoot a lot of black powder competitions in Mississippi. Open sights at 300 yards??? With a flintlock? Why not tell the truth? Maybe reliable hits on a man under perfect conditions at 150 yards, on a man's head at 75, maybe 100 with a patched round ball. What do you other muzzleloaders think?

 

[CatCam]

Maybe some truth to this story........

Can't speak for the smoothbore but here is the info on the Springfield 1861 - The Springfield Model 1861 used a three-band barrel, making it just as long as the smoothbore muskets that it had replaced. The 38-inch-long rifled barrel made it a very accurate weapon, and it was possible to hit a man sized target with a Minié ball as far away as 500 yards (460 m). To reflect this longer range, the Springfield was fitted with two flip up sights, one set for 300 yards (270 m) and the other for 500. Along with a revised 1863 model, it was the last muzzle-loading weapon ever adopted by the US Army.

 

[Suburbazine]

The main reason for smoothbore inaccuracy was the lack of precision in matching barrels to bullets (or balls). If the amount of precision is high enough, I don't see why a ball can't accurately travel 300m from a smoothbore. It all depends on the number of bounces and trajectory of last bounce when leaving the barrel.

FYI: I'm not a muzzleloader user, so my thoughts on the subject are probably not realistic.

 

[Rainsdrops]

Timothy Murphy was a sniper during the American revolution. It's written that he could hit a seven inch plate at 200 yards with his rifle. He is know for assassinating a general. 300 yard shot, in a tree!!!

 

[Barney88PDC]

http://www.gunwerks.com/Shooting-Systems/muzzleLoader

I know not exactly the same equipment but.

 

[falshooter]

Should have asked him to prove it.. He's just a re-enactor trying to impress the ill-informed crowd. He might get a head shot at 200yds once , but not very likely twice with a smooth bore musket.

I've always read the snipers in the Revolutionary War used rifled barrels not smooth bore muskets.

Timothy Murphy was a member of this unit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan's_Riflemen

 

[tallguy606]

When you think about it: 1) you would have to aim so high at 300 or even 200 yard to compensate for huge drop in the round ball projectile that the barrel would obscure your target. You would be aiming at a spot 8-10 feet over the target 2) Open front sight would blot out a human figure at those distances. No way with a smoothbore musket, miracle shot with a rifle even. Not to say that if a soldier shot at a mass of men, he MIGHT get lucky and hit someone in the group somewhere.

 

[Barney88PDC]

When you think about it: 1) you would have to aim so high at 300 or even 200 yard to compensate for huge drop in the round ball projectile that the barrel would obscure your target. You would be aiming at a spot 8-10 feet over the target 2) Open front sight would blot out a human figure at those distances. No way with a smoothbore musket, miracle shot with a rifle even. Not to say that if a soldier shot at a mass of men, he MIGHT get lucky and hit someone in the group somewhere.

Are you talking today's centerfire rifles?

 

[tallwalker]

I have often wondered if old time shooters had a few things going for them that we may have lost over time. Maybe a close intimacy and knowledge of what equip they had to work with, the necessity (and consequences) of making the shot, and more instinctive shooting. I'll bet they were more in tune with the natural variables like wind and distance than we are now. Kinda like forgetting how to do math in your head because of calculators.

 

[Jed]

What did Quigley use?

 

[hunter5567]

I've seen groups posted for the National Muzzle loading Rifle Association shoots with 10 shots inside of 2 inches at 200 yards using a Kentucky type rifle with iron sights. I don't see that happening at 50 yards with smooth bore musket.

 

[tallwalker]

Quigley shot a Sharps in 45-110 but I have seen some sources that say 45-120. I believe the 110.

 

[LA Trapper]

Timothy Murphy was a sniper during the American revolution. It's written that he could hit a seven inch plate at 200 yards with his rifle. He is know for assassinating a general. 300 yard shot, in a tree!!!

What Raindrops said. The History Channel had a bit on him during their three part series this Fall.

 

[rabiddawg]

I have often wondered if old time shooters had a few things going for them that we may have lost over time. Maybe a close intimacy and knowledge of what equip they had to work with, the necessity (and consequences) of making the shot, and more instinctive shooting. I'll bet they were more in tune with the natural variables like wind and distance than we are now. Kinda like forgetting how to do math in your head because of calculators.

I dont agree with this. Modern sharpshooters or snipers know far more about windage, elevation, weather conditions effect etc.

 

[Rainsdrops]

Historically firearms weren't a sport they were a way of life. Most folks couldn't afford to burn a few hundred round at cans or targets. Many only had small flask of powder and a handbag of balls. This formed relationships between men and their weapons.
200 yard kills with smooth bores has been done. Now whether a guy who re - enacts on the weekend can do it, is another story