Brandishing
- Thread starter dwsonar
- Start date
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What other states call brandishing we call aggravated assault (see dave's story above).
Here's the laws pertaining to it-
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78467
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78478
Now whether you were trying to keep from being the victim of a crime or actually perpetrating a crime all depends on the circumstances.
My best advice would be if any gun play is involved,whether anyone gets shot or not,call the police as soon as possible and tell your side of the story.
I've actually had scumbags who were trying to rob someone complain that their intended victim threatened them with a gun and they wanted to sign charges against them!
Here's the laws pertaining to it-
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78467
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78478
Now whether you were trying to keep from being the victim of a crime or actually perpetrating a crime all depends on the circumstances.
My best advice would be if any gun play is involved,whether anyone gets shot or not,call the police as soon as possible and tell your side of the story.
I've actually had scumbags who were trying to rob someone complain that their intended victim threatened them with a gun and they wanted to sign charges against them!
I find it strange that you think I'm joking. I'm doing just what you suggested, getting more training. It's not a formal class, but asking questions here is still training. Finances right now prohibit taking classes.
I'm not ex-military, nor have I ever taken any self defense courses, so this is where I'm looking for advice at the moment. If y'all think I'm wasting your time, or not being serious, tell me and I'll look elsewhere.
There are no stupid questions only stupid answers.
Guate_shooter
LA CHP Instructor # 522
Lots of Instructors in the area (maybe not lockport), that will allow you to sit in their class for free just so you can get a better understanding and a diferent idea, you might not get a Cert from it but you went there looking for something diferent in the first place.
Houma/Thibodeaux area should be a good place to look, talk to Bill Hickman and see what he can do for you.
Never thought of that. The CCW class I took didn't go into depth on tactics and the instructor didn't know what brandishing was. He did say if showing you were armed could prevent a situation from escalating, do it. Sounded strange then because of other states laws, that's why I asked here on a mostly Louisiana forum.
As you can see, I'm totally new to this and don't know much.
I did read a lot of the posts on nolatec's sponser site. I posted the same question there three days ago, but no response yet.
I'm sure I'll have more newbie type questions later, thanks for putting up with me.
As you can see, I'm totally new to this and don't know much.
I did read a lot of the posts on nolatec's sponser site. I posted the same question there three days ago, but no response yet.
I'm sure I'll have more newbie type questions later, thanks for putting up with me.
TomTerrific
Well-Known Member
+++++++++
She may be a reflection of you.
I posted the other day the thwarting of a possible burglary at my home by a neighbor the other day.
My plan of action would have been, had I come across the situation, to have my carry in the car snubby .357 in my hand pointing at the ground when I approached my house and my cell in the other hand.
Were I reasonably sure BGs were in my house, I would call 911, report a possible burglary under way, and sit back and wait, not enter the house.
I would think, given I was on my property and the circumstances, this would not get me in any trouble.
My understanding from my three CHP classes is showing a weapon because you are POed can get you in trouble. Period. This from three different instructors. Showing, which I think is a lower level than _my_ idea of brandishing, can escalate the situation, so it should not be done rashly.
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The other thing to consider here is that once you have that CHP you are held to a higher standard than most of the population. I read once that people with CHP's have to try twice as hard to de-escalate a situation as someone without. I guess it is one of those "they should know better" situations.
In your example, you could walk out to your car and try and make tyrone move, but you do run the risk of having to either pull your gun (possibly breaking the law and getting jail time with tyrone's cousin) or giving them your keys/wallet/whatever or you could just go back into the store and wait for them to leave or call the police. The second option would almost guarantee that you would be safe, not have to give up your wallet or your freedom.
In your example, you could walk out to your car and try and make tyrone move, but you do run the risk of having to either pull your gun (possibly breaking the law and getting jail time with tyrone's cousin) or giving them your keys/wallet/whatever or you could just go back into the store and wait for them to leave or call the police. The second option would almost guarantee that you would be safe, not have to give up your wallet or your freedom.
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Ok, lets use the poster's scenario.
"Say I stop for gas at 3am. I come out after paying and there are two guys hanging out by my car. No one else around. That by itself is not a deadly threat. Can I brush my coat/shirt back so that they see I'm armed and hopefully they move on? I'm not talking about pulling my pistol and telling them to leave, just something subtle".
If I don't do anything to indicate that I am threatening or draw attention to my gun but I am open carrying instead of concealed how would that be different than if I brush my coat/shirt back so that they see I'm armed without making any overt effort to intentionally draw their attention to the gun.
Suppose I use a motion like reaching back to scratch my back while moving my shirt back without even making eye contact.
"Say I stop for gas at 3am. I come out after paying and there are two guys hanging out by my car. No one else around. That by itself is not a deadly threat. Can I brush my coat/shirt back so that they see I'm armed and hopefully they move on? I'm not talking about pulling my pistol and telling them to leave, just something subtle".
If I don't do anything to indicate that I am threatening or draw attention to my gun but I am open carrying instead of concealed how would that be different than if I brush my coat/shirt back so that they see I'm armed without making any overt effort to intentionally draw their attention to the gun.
Suppose I use a motion like reaching back to scratch my back while moving my shirt back without even making eye contact.
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Nolacopusmc
*Banned*
intent and perception
IMHO If you just paid for gas and were leavin the store and "tyrone" was at your car, there is no point in escalating the situation. If from a distance you ask them to leave and they do not comply there is no reason for you to risk your life, head back inside call the authorities. There is no reason for violence if it can be avoided especially if you admit to needing more training. I carry as a last resort and am willing to use it if needed but in that senario I see no immediate use for a firearm nor am I willing put myself in greater danger. I carry to mitigate danger, approaching a possibly violent situation isn't in my best interest.
That is kind of my point. I could just as well be removing my cover before getting in my car not because I feel a threat . Do I really have to be that worried about someone's perception of doing something normal that is in no way threatening.
I am looking at it as just what someone might normally be expected to do, even if no threat exist.
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Good advice.
I have defused one confrontation by saying "Don't make me draw my weapon!"; but not displaying anything. My back was to a big iron fence.
It worked.
leVieux
I'm not that up on Louisiana laws but I am familiar with Texas' with the only real difference being Louisiana's OC law so I will go ahead and add my .02 here.
In the scenario where a person sweeps their coat back with the intention of displaying their weapon, as a level of force, it becomes just that; your use of a certain level of force against whoever it is that your are displaying to.
When you remove your coat, it cannot reliably be considered the same use of force, IMO, because under reasonable assumption, you were engaging in an everyday activity that is a normal part of everyone's life. The showing of the gun is happenstantial because there is no obvious intent on your part to use it as a force against anyone.
That's how I see it anyway.
In the scenario where a person sweeps their coat back with the intention of displaying their weapon, as a level of force, it becomes just that; your use of a certain level of force against whoever it is that your are displaying to.
When you remove your coat, it cannot reliably be considered the same use of force, IMO, because under reasonable assumption, you were engaging in an everyday activity that is a normal part of everyone's life. The showing of the gun is happenstantial because there is no obvious intent on your part to use it as a force against anyone.
That's how I see it anyway.
Nolacopusmc
*Banned*
This pretty much sums it up.
It might help to understand the use of force continuum as defined by the Dept of Justice. Here's the link to their definition.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/continuum.htm
In a nutshell, and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, it says that a persons simple presence is the lowest level of force, but it is considered force because it can "force" a person to alter their behavior. Signs and hand and arm signals fall into this category also.
The next is your voice, then on to the laying of hands, then less than lethal, then lethal force, which is the highest level use of force.
In my experience, the rules of the use of force says it is only reasonable to use only the next level of force you are facing in order to stop the aggression unless that level is not effective. Only then can you, reasonably, elevate to the next level of force.
This means that if I flip you the bird you cannot shoot me. However, if I grab your arm to keep you from moving, you are allowed to strike me until I let go of you.
Anyone disagree? Hahahah great question to ask around here, huh?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/continuum.htm
In a nutshell, and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, it says that a persons simple presence is the lowest level of force, but it is considered force because it can "force" a person to alter their behavior. Signs and hand and arm signals fall into this category also.
The next is your voice, then on to the laying of hands, then less than lethal, then lethal force, which is the highest level use of force.
In my experience, the rules of the use of force says it is only reasonable to use only the next level of force you are facing in order to stop the aggression unless that level is not effective. Only then can you, reasonably, elevate to the next level of force.
This means that if I flip you the bird you cannot shoot me. However, if I grab your arm to keep you from moving, you are allowed to strike me until I let go of you.
Anyone disagree? Hahahah great question to ask around here, huh?
Nolacopusmc
*Banned*
That pretty much sums it up
NO !
As of now, O.C. of a handgun is still prohibited by law in Texas, except for some very limited circumstances.
O.C. is not, and never was, illegal in Louisiana. (Despite what the NOPD says !)
Strangely, O.C. of a riot gun or rifle is not prohibited in Texas, only handguns are prohibited from O.C.
leVieux
As of now, O.C. of a handgun is still prohibited by law in Texas, except for some very limited circumstances.
O.C. is not, and never was, illegal in Louisiana. (Despite what the NOPD says !)
Strangely, O.C. of a riot gun or rifle is not prohibited in Texas, only handguns are prohibited from O.C.
leVieux
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