Brandishing

[posse comatosis]

The law and brandishing in Texas:
http://www.austin-criminal-lawyer.com/brandishing-a-weapon.aspx

 

[KellyAsh]

Strangely, O.C. of a riot gun or rifle is not prohibited in Texas, only handguns are prohibited from O.C.

leVieux

LOL, yea, isn't that the dumbest law? I can carry a fully loaded, tricked out AR in full view of everyone, as long as I don't threaten anyone with it, but I cant carry an unloaded, single shot .22 short. Makes no sense to me....or anyone else in Texas, except for the law makers, and even then I don't they get it, they just follow along blindly.

 

[KellyAsh]

Nice, Posse. Thanks for the link.

 

[Yrdawg]

LOL, yea, isn't that the dumbest law? I can carry a fully loaded, tricked out AR in full view of everyone, as long as I don't threaten anyone with it, but I cant carry an unloaded, single shot .22 short. Makes no sense to me....or anyone else in Texas, except for the law makers, and even then I don't they get it, they just follow along blindly.

They seem to be getting it pretty well in the last few years, compared to when I lived there it's a gun free for all now.

 

[KellyAsh]

... it's a gun free for all now.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, lol.

 

[thesamunit]

@Yrdawg, I know this is off topic but I literally spit out my orange juice when I saw your avatar. Pricelss!

 

[Aberdog1]

He didn't like the fact that I didn't let him cut me off. I just was quick to observe him speeding up and saw that he was going to cut me off, so I kept a constant speed and didn't back off. That really pissed him off. He got behind me, repeatedly flashed his brights and honked. My daughter told me, "he sounds mad." She had a look of concern in her eyes. I stopped at a red light and notice him driving on the shoulder to pull up next to me. I told my daughter, "lock your door. He's coming up on the side." She immediately locked her door, looked out the window to see his pissed off face looking at her. She no longer was concern; now she was scared. She screamed, "DADDY!" I told her to give me my gun and hurry and call 911 (she has a cell). I watched him. I can read lips very well because I'm deaf and he "lipped", "I'm gonna **** you up", with the holstered gun in his hand, in plain view, but pointing to his car ceiling. That's when he looked at my daughter and saw she was on the phone, talking and screaming, and he took off. I chased him (I still don't know why I did this) around town for about 10 minutes before the police caught him in a road block.

He was arrested and charged with two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. I was very proud of my 10 year old daughter that night when the police told me she wrote out her own report.

She did great and so did you. Hug her..tell her you love her . You should be a very proud father. Courage under stress and restraint.

 

[chad]

Dude, please don't do things you see in movies. Only Clint Eastwood can get away with brushing his coat back while squinting at some mother****ers and make them leave.

Do that in New Orleans and lil' tyrone might shoot you.

Even if you could brandish legally (you can't) it's dumb. A gun isn't a magic talisman that makes the bad guys go away and makes all the ladies sleep with you. It's a tool with a specific purpose. To shoot. If you're not shooting, keep the gun hidden until you decide to do so.

As much as it pains me to say this, he's right. It's not near as easy to one-hand a deagle 50ae, as it appears in many movies.

 

[rcm192]

Louisiana isn't a "common law" state, this corresponds to how laws are named differently from other states that have similar legislature. so maaaybe this is why we dont have a brandishing law? figured i'd take a stab and apply some of my criminal justice degree.

 

[Yrdawg]

@Yrdawg, I know this is off topic but I literally spit out my orange juice when I saw your avatar. Pricelss!

Thanks, me too..when I first saw it

 

[Yrdawg]

I don't know what you're trying to say here, lol.

Sorry, just realized someone talked to me...

I mean Louisiana is much looser on guns than when I was younger

Now it's common for the police to be aware of the State and Federal BOR concerning guns. I can remember that every Leo had their own definition and interpretation of gun rights. But I'm just talking from my perspective, as always YMMV

 

[sraacke]

Now it's common for the police to be aware of the State and Federal BOR concerning guns. I can remember that every Leo had their own definition and interpretation of gun rights. But I'm just talking from my perspective, as always YMMV

There are still plenty of LEOs out there who are going around pulling laws out their butts and giving out missinformation. It's almost a weekly thing to hear a report of some LEO coming up with a real doozy.

 

[honestlou]

Louisiana isn't a "common law" state, this corresponds to how laws are named differently from other states that have similar legislature. so maaaybe this is why we dont have a brandishing law? figured i'd take a stab and apply some of my criminal justice degree.

I appreciate the enthusiasm to "take a stab", but actually, Louisiana is not significantly different than other states regarding criminal law and procedure.

All states vary somewhat in their criminal law, but there is nothing unique about Louisiana in this regard.

 

[James Cannon]

Louisiana isn't a "common law" state, this corresponds to how laws are named differently from other states that have similar legislature. so maaaybe this is why we dont have a brandishing law? figured i'd take a stab and apply some of my criminal justice degree.

We do have a brandishing law. They just don't use the -word- 'brandishing' in it.

 

[honestlou]

It might help to understand the use of force continuum as defined by the Dept of Justice. Here's the link to their definition.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/continuum.htm

In a nutshell, and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, it says that a persons simple presence is the lowest level of force, but it is considered force because it can "force" a person to alter their behavior. Signs and hand and arm signals fall into this category also.

The next is your voice, then on to the laying of hands, then less than lethal, then lethal force, which is the highest level use of force.

In my experience, the rules of the use of force says it is only reasonable to use only the next level of force you are facing in order to stop the aggression
unless that level is not effective. Only then can you, reasonably, elevate to the next level of force.

This means that if I flip you the bird you cannot shoot me. However, if I grab
your arm to keep you from moving, you are allowed to strike me until I let go of you.

Anyone disagree? Hahahah great question to ask around here, huh?

I disagree. The link is to interesting information, but "use of force" guidelines for law enforcement officers really have no bearing on how civilians may act.

What matters to a civilian is "a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm".
For example, if I am approaching my car in a parking lot and someone rushs up and grabs me, I could reasonably push away, draw and fire on him. I am comfortable saying that I would be reasonable in my fear of death or great bodily harm under the circumstances.

I am not necessarily advocating that response, but it would be justified. Civilians are not held to same standards as LEOs.

While it may be a good idea to use the lowest level of force that would be effective under the circumstances, those DOJ guidelines simply don't apply to civilians.

 

[James Cannon]

I agree with what my CHP instructor said. You don't ever draw your gun or expose it unless you're drawing it to prepare to fire. You don't draw or brandish your gun until you're in a situation where you will have to shoot. This doesn't mean you -have- to shoot when you draw it if the situation changes during those moments.

There is no reason to 'brandish' ever, imo. If you brandish and the guy doesn't back down, you're escalating the situation and fall under the moral and legal situation of no longer being 'in the right' as an instigator. You can't claim self defense when you escalate. Brandishing is for punkasses and gangstas and other egotistical strutting/machismo posturing situations.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Well said.

 

[James Cannon]

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78467

§36. Assault defined

Assault is an attempt to commit a battery, or the intentional placing of another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78437

§33. Battery defined

Battery is the intentional use of force or violence upon the person of another; or the intentional administration of a poison or other noxious liquid or substance to another.

I would say if someone brandished on me, I'd be in reasonable apprehension for receiving battery/assault/death.

This is why brandishing -is- illegal, even if they don't use the latest trendy word that's common amongst internet savvy gun owners. It's kinda like silencers, I guess. Some states call it a silencer, some a suppressor, some something else...

So I guess Louisiana is just one that doesn't call it 'brandishing' specifically. However the act commonly referred to as brandishing is -still- a crime.

 

[honestlou]

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78467

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78437

I would say if someone brandished on me, I'd be in reasonable apprehension for receiving battery/assault/death.

This is why brandishing -is- illegal, even if they don't use the latest trendy word that's common amongst internet savvy gun owners. It's kinda like silencers, I guess. Some states call it a silencer, some a suppressor, some something else...

So I guess Louisiana is just one that doesn't call it 'brandishing' specifically. However the act commonly referred to as brandishing is -still- a crime.

Good post. Thanks for posting the actual statutes. You are dead on in that what people commonly refer to as "brandishing" can constitute an "assault" under Louisiana law.

One point of clarification, and this may be obvious to most people:
It is not quite as simple as saying that we have a law against "brandishing", but we call it "assault". Assault is a broader concept, and includes many non-firearm situations. For example, if you say "I'm going to kick your ass" and take a step toward me, you have committed an assault.

It's like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not necessarily a square.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Good post. Thanks for posting the actual statutes. You are dead on in that what people commonly refer to as "brandishing" can constitute an "assault" under Louisiana law.

One point of clarification, and this may be obvious to most people:
It is not quite as simple as saying that we have a law against "brandishing", but we call it "assault". Assault is a broader concept, and includes many non-firearm situations. For example, if you say "I'm going to kick your ass" and take a step toward me, you have committed an assault.

It's like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not necessarily a square.

Following that logic, brandishing would actuallybe more akin to an aggravated assault since thee is a weapon involved.