CAS USPSA Match Oct. 3 Thibodaux, La.

[ima45dv8]

Thirdly, I find it insulting that my parents had to find out from another friend that they were getting thrown under the bus on this forum. NONE OF YOU called to speak to them person-to-person. I am deeply dissappointed that after years of developing a reputation of honesty and fairness, you would assume the worst.

^^^^
And THAT'S why we don't allow that over on the other forum.

babyrangatang, find me at the match (it won't be hard). TSCR would like to shake your hand, and your parent's.

 

[FreedomGunworks]

Thirdly, I find it insulting that my parents had to find out from another friend that they were getting thrown under the bus on this forum. NONE OF YOU called to speak to them person-to-person. I am deeply dissappointed that after years of developing a reputation of honesty and fairness, you would assume the worst.

I don't know when you last spoke to your parents, but your statement above in bold is incorrect. I spoke with Mr. Gary personally myself around noon today, but that's how I am. When I have issue with someone or something, I'm not afraid to let it be known.

I believe there was no ill intent in your local club match, but you must also look at it from the outside as so many others will. It doesn't look good, angles or no angles, this distance, that distance. It wouldn't be fair to you for me to build a match and let my friends come shoot it then invite you over and let you pay your entry fees and pretend to give you the same opportunity as everyone else. It's not the same.

Most importantly, think about the perception other people have of what happened and how it looks to the rest of the community.

In saying that, I spoke with Mr. Gary today, and I'm comfortable with the conversation that took place. There's nothing left for me to say.

 

[babyrangatang]

Did you speak to him before your posts on this forum?
My point is that you decided to post on this forum before you talked to him. That's what I'm disappointed in.

 

[FreedomGunworks]

No, I did not speak to him before I posted here, nor did I attack him or "throw him under the bus". I merely commented that what happened isn't fair to the other participants that are attending the match. I blamed no one, still don't. If I have an issue with someone directly, I'll go to them directly. Mark stated above that he doesn't care if anyone has already shot it or not, they have to be able to do it on match day. I don't care if you want to practice it 10 times right in front of me and then run it for score. What I have issue with is someone doing it and thinking it's still equitable (adjective. 1. characterized by equity or fairness; just and right; fair; reasonable) for everyone.

 

[babyrangatang]

Bobby,
The way you handled this was wrong. If you can't see it, there's no amount of explaining that I can do to make you understand.

 

[FreedomGunworks]

Chad,
The way you handled this was wrong. If you can't see it, there's no amount of explaining that I can do to make you understand.

 

[babyrangatang]

Did you just copy-and-pase my post?

You're alright, man (no sarcasm)

 

[BUSTER48]

Whew, had to think about this one for a bit. For someone like me, just a C class shooter who shoots for the absolute love of the sport and the great friendships that I have developed over the past 3 years, this is a non issue. I think those who are in my class are kidding themselves if they think someone will gain a competitive advantage as a result of having shot some of the stages in advance of the main event. As far as the upper echelon of shooters, I’m not sure that anybody gains a competitive advantage there either. Any negative remarks regarding the match staff are unwarranted and petty. These folks have been nothing but welcoming and encouraging since I started in this sport. They bust their asses to put on a wonderful event for all of us. I’m less concerned with where I finish on the prize table and more concerned with participating in the sport that I love with the people that have helped to facilitate my growth in the sport. I guess that’s easy for me to say since I have a day job and don’t have to depend on the sport to eat. Thank goodness, if that were the case I’d look like an Ethiopian. Just my two cents.

 

[FreedomGunworks]

I did.

Chad, I love your folks, I really do. Ask your pops, when I talked to him on the phone today I cried, and I'm man enough to admit that. What you don't see is me in the middle here. Folks are throwing accusations at a crowd of people I care for immensely, and that puts me on the defensive, but I cannot defend what I saw in those videos Brother.

There are some rotten people in our sport, often wolves wearing sheep's clothing, that will do anything to win. Some will cheat, lie, steal, or do whatever it takes. They lead miserable lives with delusions of importance and winning matters to some of them. I do not want those that I care for to get labeled that way. Best way to stay clean is to avoid mud puddles.

Because I am a God fearing Christian, there are things that I live by. I wanted to share a few of them with you.

14. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

21. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

I'm looking fwd to seeing you all. I had a great time with you and your new bride at the Miss Classic (wish I could have shot a match on my honeymoon!). Susan and I were actually planning to come a day early to hang out with you all. Does that sound like someone that would want to throw your dad under the bus?

There are some that think some things need to be brought out into the open so they can be discussed, like grown ups, amongst friends. Or those that use to be friends and should be again this day. I'm not part of that, but as a sponsor of the match, and a registered competitor, I did kind of want some explanation. Your pops gave me that today, and I'm good with everything.

 

[BayouSlide]

If y'all will excuse me for a moment, I'd like to climb up on the soapbox for a moment here.

Something is getting lost in the hubbub. We all obviously care deeply about the Gator Classic, and probably no one cares more about the match than Gary, Barbara and the rest of the folks who have built up this match over the years to the point where it sells out and shooters from all over consider it one of the highlights of the calendar.

The issue to me is clear: as the Gator grows its reputation and draws more and more serious competitors and top-ranked shooters from outside our area, scrutiny of of all sorts of issues, both prematch and during the match, will increase and discussions will occasionally get heated. I spent the last year and a half working some major Level II and III matches and saw this occur at every one of them. This is a competitive sport, folks, and among competitors passions tend to run high.

That said, I also appreciate the outstanding civility of the BEnos forum, which also demonstrates that tough questions can get raised in a civil manner so we can discuss and learn from each other.

First, for many of us, it takes much more than a change of angle or a wall placed differently to make two distinct stages out of one. Unfortunately, the present discussion shows the potential downside in bad PR that a home club can reap from testing stages in this manner. We shouldn't let this lesson get lost in the static.

I'm in the ad biz and I learned one thing a long time ago: Perception is reality. This is the crux of the discussion, once all the shouting and hurt feelings inevitably die down.

I appreciate everything Gary and all have done for this match and the sport in this area over the years. My opinion is definitely peanut gallery because I have neither the time, proximity or energy at this time in my life to offer to take on a central role in CAS or any other club. Instead, I try to appreciate and support those that make that kind of effort.

Still, I don't always agree with everything. And most people are probably wise enough not to ask my opinion 'cause I'm too happy to oblige . But there's always room for constructive criticism—and constructive criticism shouldn't be mistaken as finger pointing or disparaging anyone's contributions. I can look at every match I've helped staff and see room for improvement, just as I can examine my performance as an RO/CRO at those matches and see how I could do a better job next time around.

I was incredibly impressed at Area 4 in 2009 when the MD came up to every single staffer and asked us each, in turn, to assess the match—not to gripe or complain but to identify what went well and what could be improved. I was sorry that group didn't run Area 4 in 2010: I thought they had the right attitude.

Because IMO, that's the attitude we should all have, because it's ultimately what is best for the sport we all love so passionately.

 

[FreedomGunworks]

Whew, had to think about this one for a bit. For someone like me, just a C class shooter who shoots for the absolute love of the sport and the great friendships that I have developed over the past 3 years, this is a non issue. I think those who are in my class are kidding themselves if they think someone will gain a competitive advantage as a result of having shot some of the stages in advance of the main event. As far as the upper echelon of shooters, I’m not sure that anybody gains a competitive advantage there either. Any negative remarks regarding the match staff are unwarranted and petty. These folks have been nothing but welcoming and encouraging since I started in this sport. They bust their asses to put on a wonderful event for all of us. I’m less concerned with where I finish on the prize table and more concerned with participating in the sport that I love with the people that have helped to facilitate my growth in the sport. I guess that’s easy for me to say since I have a day job and don’t have to depend on the sport to eat. Thank goodness, if that were the case I’d look like an Ethiopian. Just my two cents.

I'm glad I don't have to depend on this sport either! My other job pays my bills (being a GREAT husband).

And I disagree, a C class shooter will gain more from practicing a stage than any other class in my opinion. You just got practice, and that SHOULD make you better.

You're also missing my point on the whole issue. It's NOT about winning, I've already done that, it's about EQUALITY FOR EVERYONE SHOOTING THE MATCH!!!

Perception and reality, let me explain.

Reality, according to some, is that the stages were interpretations of actual stages to be shot at The Gator, but different.

Perception, from some seeing the videos, is that the local club was practicing the exact stages in the very same bays they would be shot at for the match, possibly giving some an unfair advantage.

It doesn't matter if the stages were exactly the same or not, it matters that many people saw the videos and came to their own conclusions and that may have damaged the name or reputation of a man and a match. Sad story all the way around.

 

[BUSTER48]

I'm glad I don't have to depend on this sport either! My other job pays my bills (being a GREAT husband).

And I disagree, a C class shooter will gain more from practicing a stage than any other class in my opinion. You just got practice, and that SHOULD make you better.

You're also missing my point on the whole issue. It's NOT about winning, I've already done that, it's about EQUALITY FOR EVERYONE SHOOTING THE MATCH!!!

Perception and reality, let me explain.

Reality, according to some, is that the stages were interpretations of actual stages to be shot at The Gator, but different.

Perception, from some seeing the videos, is that the local club was practicing the exact stages in the very same bays they would be shot at for the match, possibly giving some an unfair advantage.

It doesn't matter if the stages were exactly the same or not, it matters that many people saw the videos and came to their own conclusions and that may have damaged the name or reputation of a man and a match. Sad story all the way around.

Excellent point regarding reality and perception. I can't disagree with you there.

 

[CliffCargill]

I am posting this against my parents' wishes.

First of all, they spent a great deal of time in setting those stages for last sunday's match to ensure that no advantage was gained. We litterally spent hours discussing this very thing. Small things like distances and angles were altered from the Gator stages so that they would be different. Those are things that you can't tell by looking at a paper layout versus an actual stage. Anyone that has match experience knows how little differences in the angle of a wall or fault line can dramatically change the way you have to shoot a stage.

Secondly, the purpose for the match on sunday to be conducted the way it was was to test the time in which it took for the squads to get through the stages. Anyone that has ever run a match can attest to the importance of that. For this to be a viable test the stages and squad sizes had to have a great deal of similarity.

Thirdly, I find it insulting that my parents had to find out from another friend that they were getting thrown under the bus on this forum. NONE OF YOU called to speak to them person-to-person. I am deeply dissappointed that after years of developing a reputation of honesty and fairness, you would assume the worst.

Chad,

I've known your parents for over 20 years. They are some of the finest people in this sport I've ever met with reputations second to NONE. I'm so proud to call them friends.

I'm truly sorry this happened to them.

Best,

Cliff
L-1610