Conservative/right wing = Gun nut?

[Gus McCrae]

OMG, denying the use of the word. That is clearly denying someone their right to do... something? Wrong. The word "marriage" comes from the judeo-christian religious tradition and it is their right for the term to be used by their choosing. Marriage is only sanctioned and regulated by the state insofar as it matters for tax purposes and other legal issues. You believe that being able to use the term and redefine marriage is a "right" when it isn't. In fact, marriage is not even a right. You cannot marry a 12 year old, you cannot marry your sister; there are many people that you cannot legally or rightfully marry. As far as legal bindings go, there are a number of states that offer civil unions, and, as I already said, a gay couple have as many "rights" as a non-gay couple.



I've got a degree in biology and I've dissected human cadavers, looked at numerous preserved fetuses, and seen a number of embryos under microscopes. Point is, a human being is a human being when it has human DNA. If you want to start using an arbitrary definition like "sentience," then we need to start looking at whether people with severe mental retardation and other mental disabilities have "sentience." My best friend has a younger brother with Downs Syndrome... he could not survive for more than a few days in all likelihood without having some kind of periodic supervision. Babies cannot be defined as "sentient." And we could go on and on... As far as the Constitution goes, it says you have a RIGHT to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If it's ok for me to kill you before you're born, then what happened to the right to life? Guess it isn't there...



Again, I made my point with drugs perfectly clear. If people were going to do drugs and then have to deal with the fallout ON THEIR OWN, then I would be 100% fine with it being legalized. I have never and will never use drugs, but I've got absolutely no problem with someone sitting in their house smoking weed and being a loser if that's what they want to do. But, as I said, I'm damn sure not going to pay for their rehab when they get addicted to coke, or pay for welfare for them because they can't maintain a simple job, or anything of the like. If we break down the socio-governmental network of using tax money to help out people with problems they have created for themselves, then hey, people can smoke as much weed as they want and I'm fine with it.



You clearly don't understand conservatism as a philosophy. That's ok, because the vast majority of people, even those that are conservatives, do not either. I would be more than happy to have a discussion on conservatism as a philosophy and the merits of that philosophy within our government's framework, but I'm not sure this is the thread to do it in.

Gay couples (consenting adults) do not have the same rights in this country as other people. You even state as much in your replies though to you it's a minor issue.

As far as what I believe, I don't think the government should be involved in what I see as a church issue anyways. If anything, the government should look at all "marriages" as a civil union. As far as I see, the use of the term is a free speech and freedom of religion thing.

Personally, I think abortions are a terrible thing and I hope nobody in my family ever decides to have one. I think that both sides spend way too much money and effort on the issue instead of just preventing getting there in the first place. From your argument, "Point is, a human being is a human being when it has human DNA." So birth control is bad because it wastes DNA?

I think we about agree on the drug issue.

I'm probably much more conservative than I am liberal, but I do not really consider myself either. I tend to be more of a Libertarian or Constitutionalist as far as parties go. I believe we should be allowed to pull that 900lb TV on our heads and deal with the consequences. I don't think most modern "conservatives" really believe that.

 

[kcinnick]

I'll take gay marriage to state my Stance that "Left" is bad for all of us, and "right" is the way our country needs to go.

I am not for any of the gay marriage ban proposals, I am not for any of the proposals allowing Gay Marriage. I am against all of them. Well how can this be?

I do not feel it is the goverments place to tell you if you can or can not get married, and that the goverment should not issue ANY marriage license. If your church wants to honor gay marriage, that is fine with me. If another church wants to not honor gay marriage, that is also fine with me.

The truth is the Democrats and Republicans in this country just want more power and the only way for them to get it is to move to the Left. We need a strong movement to the Right and a movement for liberty. If we woke up and worked together and stopped trying to keep bob and bob from getting married and stopped worrying about how much fuel steves truck was using and got together and told the goverment to leave us the **** alone this would be a better place.

 

[Gus McCrae]

I'll take gay marriage to state my Stance that "Left" is bad for all of us, and "right" is the way our country needs to go.

I am not for any of the gay marriage ban proposals, I am not for any of the proposals allowing Gay Marriage. I am against all of them. Well how can this be?

I do not feel it is the goverments place to tell you if you can or can not get married, and that the goverment should not issue ANY marriage license. If your church wants to honor gay marriage, that is fine with me. If another church wants to not honor gay marriage, that is also fine with me.

The truth is the Democrats and Republicans in this country just want more power and the only way for them to get it is to move to the Left. We need a strong movement to the Right and a movement for liberty. If we woke up and worked together and stopped trying to keep bob and bob from getting married and stopped worrying about how much fuel steves truck was using and got together and told the goverment to leave us the **** alone this would be a better place.

Excellent post.

 

[BobKaro]

I'll take gay marriage to state my Stance that "Left" is bad for all of us, and "right" is the way our country needs to go.

I am not for any of the gay marriage ban proposals, I am not for any of the proposals allowing Gay Marriage. I am against all of them. Well how can this be?

I do not feel it is the goverments place to tell you if you can or can not get married, and that the goverment should not issue ANY marriage license. If your church wants to honor gay marriage, that is fine with me. If another church wants to not honor gay marriage, that is also fine with me.

The truth is the Democrats and Republicans in this country just want more power and the only way for them to get it is to move to the Left. We need a strong movement to the Right and a movement for liberty. If we woke up and worked together and stopped trying to keep bob and bob from getting married and stopped worrying about how much fuel steves truck was using and got together and told the goverment to leave us the **** alone this would be a better place.

QFT

 

[CZowner07]

How did this go from leftwingers not liking guns to gay marrage?

 

[lacowboy]

How did this go from leftwingers not liking guns to gay marrage?

Any left/right debate turns into Gay marriage debate. Don't know why just does. As far as leftists/ liberals/Democrats owning guns I personally know a number of them that do. Guns is not a big issue on the "Left" right now. Nobody really cares about it except the people who are trying to stir up s##t, and scare people into believing the President is after your guns. Who benefits from such scare tactics? Well just look at who is making a butt load of money right now from scarring everyone into buying as many as they can right now. Answer that question and you will have the answer to who is starting all the rumors. Then go out and buy more guns so they can get richer than they already are.

 

[jayd]

Guns is not a big issue on the "Left" right now. Nobody really cares about it except the people who are trying to stir up s##t, and scare people into believing the President is after your guns.

Penguin,
Is that you?

 

[Morgan Allison]

Guns is not a big issue on the "Left" right now.

That's only because they know they can't win it right now. It's sour grapes. But, they are just biding their time. They (leftist political leaders) haven't let it go entirely, just are waiting for a "better time." They've said so themselves on plenty of occasions.

 

[senseiturtle]

Great post Kcinnick... I haven't looked at it in that way, and I totally agree.

--

RE: The way for government to seize power is to move to the left = agree.

---

I'm what many would consider very conservative (or libertarian) in a great number of issues, particularly concerning individual rights. I vote Republican, simply because there isn't a more conservative viable candidate. At the same time, I have come to recognize the value of having a "leftist" movement. Forgive me if my understanding of history might be a little off, but I'll go ahead and make my point.

They call it "progressive," as it attempts to make "progress." In some aspects of government, expansion is/has been warranted. Labor laws, Federal Crop Loans, Peace Corps, Women's Sufferage, Civil Rights of 64, Americans with Disabilities Act, etc. etc... most of these things are widely considered "good."

There is a place for liberal/progressives in today's society. More specifically, I think gays should be afforded 100% rights in terms of civil unions, filing joint tax returns, whatever. If they want the pain of marriage, let them have it . But more generally, their presence allows us to define the conservative movement as a contrast to their agendas.

The end result MUST be balance... balance between what is considered conservative goals, and between liberal goals... without the over-expansion of government and infringement of rights through power seizure. Both parties have been guilty of it lately, and that's what's sickening.

Our passion for individual liberty is not a "left/right" issue, but a reactionary event due to the constant expansion of government, and continual impingement of those rights. As with the "social contract" of philosophers past, we exchange our individual liberties for government help... such as trade protections, armies, etc... but when the cost of said "help" gets too high, we cling to what liberties we have left.


It just so happens that firearm possession is a centerpiece of individual liberty, often gone in societies much more oppressive. While we can afford giving up a few rights (privacy through patriot act, etc.) for the tradeoffs of security and safety, we choose to draw our line in the sand here.

 

[kcinnick]

How did this go from leftwingers not liking guns to gay marrage?

Basically my gay marriage argument theory applies to gun ownership.

If you don't want a gun, don't buy one. If you don't want me to carry a gun on your property, then tell me, I won't carry on your private property.

Don't prevent me from buying a gun becuase you don't want one.

Where we run into a problem in this country is people wanting to control other people and the goverment wanting to control all the people (Dems and Republicans). The conservatives want to tell gays they cannot be together and this becomes a major issue when the gay population is a drop in the bucket. The "liberals" want to take away all the man toys : Guns,Trucks,Boats etc.

We need to team up together and stand up for individual liberty and we can all truly get want we want as long as our goal is to not control other people.

 

[ABM]

Kcinnick is right

Some how the media has succeeded in dividing all of us into groups and pitting those groups against one another... White right/wing, gay rights, African American, Hispanic American, left wing liberal etc. The truth is as you said, we all need to ban together and tell the politicians to leave ALL of our individual rights alone. Then gun rights, gay rights, womens rights etc becomes Individual Rights and the government has to keep its hands off.
By the way, the Progressive movement goes back to just before the turn of the 20th century and sprang up from a desire to create a more controlled modernized society and from the fear of society's deterioration from the influx of lesser peoples like the Italians, Irish, the freed black slaves and other undesirables. It has ties to Eugenics in some of the literature I have found.

 

[hot shot]

I don't want socialism but at the same time I don't think the gov't and country is going to hell and they are taking all our rights away every ten minutes either. Obamanation doesn't need to be trying to control the banks, auto industry, health care, ect. If people need health care then they need to get the education/training to move up in the world and get a type of job that has those benefits or so they can afford to pay for it themselves. I also don't understand why I am expected to pay into socail programs that support extended laziness and general pieces of sh*t. Sure help people out to get back on thier feet but jeez there has to be some limit.

Ill try and explain this. Some of us are raised that you work for what you want, and you sacrifice for the things you really want, if you dont take care of yourself, no one is going to take care of you. Do for yourself, and you will succeed in life.
Others are taught, its your governments responsibility to take care of you, dont go out of your way, just sit back and collect the welfare, and food stamps. If you cant afford what you want, just go take it. The people that work for the nice things have a job, and can replace them

 

[lacowboy]

Ill try and explain this. Some of us are raised that you work for what you want, and you sacrifice for the things you really want, if you dont take care of yourself, no one is going to take care of you. Do for yourself, and you will succeed in life.
Others are taught, its your governments responsibility to take care of you, dont go out of your way, just sit back and collect the welfare, and food stamps. If you cant afford what you want, just go take it. The people that work for the nice things have a job, and can replace them

You make some good points. I have one question. Lets say a man works hard all of his life. He has a family and is doing just fine. He has paid his taxes and payed into all the other programs like Social Security and such. Lets say also he works a an independent contractor. One day on the job he has a accident no fault of his own. As an independent contractor, he has no workman's comp insurance. He is left permanently disabled. It takes 3 years because of all the B.S. involved in filing for Disability, all of his savings are gone because he has to feed his family and pay the bills for 3 years with no income. Now he is on Social Security Disability totally dependent on the government for income. Do you consider this person a bum because he draws income from the government?

 

[shoalsfugro]

Left right or on the fence

You make some good points. I have one question. Lets say a man works hard all of his life. He has a family and is doing just fine. He has paid his taxes and payed into all the other programs like Social Security and such. Lets say also he works a an independent contractor. One day on the job he has a accident no fault of his own. As an independent contractor, he has no workman's comp insurance. He is left permanently disabled. It takes 3 years because of all the B.S. involved in filing for Disability, all of his savings are gone because he has to feed his family and pay the bills for 3 years with no income. Now he is on Social Security Disability totally dependent on the government for income. Do you consider this person a bum because he draws income from the government?

He not drawing income from Goverment, he worked hard takes care of family and making a withdrawl of the money he "Paid" unlike others that never put only take. He is the right reason for programs 3 years is what wrong.

 

[mikepizz]

mwill75 why do all you leftist always think we conservatives or right wingers are closet racists? I would say stop watching the Communists News Network and you might start thinking a little for yourself. It is the left that always brings up race, gender, sexual orientation. Open your eyes man, expand your horizons and STOP DRINKING THE KOOLAID.

 

[Gus McCrae]

How did this go from leftwingers not liking guns to gay marrage?

It's what happens when one side thinks they have the monopoly on freedom and liberty. I think both are wrong.

My point is both current conservatives and liberals have some of both. I like the it's none of your business and government should be small approach.

 

[kcinnick]

You make some good points. I have one question. Lets say a man works hard all of his life. He has a family and is doing just fine. He has paid his taxes and payed into all the other programs like Social Security and such. Lets say also he works a an independent contractor. One day on the job he has a accident no fault of his own. As an independent contractor, he has no workman's comp insurance. He is left permanently disabled. It takes 3 years because of all the B.S. involved in filing for Disability, all of his savings are gone because he has to feed his family and pay the bills for 3 years with no income. Now he is on Social Security Disability totally dependent on the government for income. Do you consider this person a bum because he draws income from the government?

Back before the goverment tried to completely control our lives, when one of the citizens of a community hit hard times, the community banded together and helped that citizen. Remember all of the stories in school when a barn burned down the entire town got together and rebuilt it for free??? Americans are very charitable, at least the ones whos company I keep. If we could get the goverment out of the Robin Hood business and citizens had more money there would be a privatly funded charity boom. These charities would be much faster and more effiecient than our federal goverment with tools to actually help people in a timely manner. If they are not, then people will not give them money!!!

These new charities would get your man food for his family, ensure his kids had the proper tools for learning and make sure he could keep a roof over their head. He would then not have to burn through his savings quickly. They would then help him find employment with his skill new skill set, even though his body might not be as able as it use to, a life long contractor has a wealth of knowledge that go be used to train, teach, advise, etc. So now your man can still have his savings, still support his family, and not depend on the goverment.

WE HAVE TO STOP DEPENDING ON THE GOVERMENT FOR NEEDS THAT WE (AS IN SOCIETY) CAN FULFIL OURSELVES.(INCLUDING PERSONAL DEFENSE, CARRY YOUR GUN!)

 

[lacowboy]

Back before the goverment tried to completely control our lives, when one of the citizens of a community hit hard times, the community banded together and helped that citizen. Remember all of the stories in school when a barn burned down the entire town got together and rebuilt it for free??? Americans are very charitable, at least the ones whos company I keep. If we could get the goverment out of the Robin Hood business and citizens had more money there would be a privatly funded charity boom. These charities would be much faster and more effiecient than our federal goverment with tools to actually help people in a timely manner. If they are not, then people will not give them money!!!

These new charities would get your man food for his family, ensure his kids had the proper tools for learning and make sure he could keep a roof over their head. He would then not have to burn through his savings quickly. They would then help him find employment with his skill new skill set, even though his body might not be as able as it use to, a life long contractor has a wealth of knowledge that go be used to train, teach, advise, etc. So now your man can still have his savings, still support his family, and not depend on the goverment.

WE HAVE TO STOP DEPENDING ON THE GOVERMENT FOR NEEDS THAT WE (AS IN SOCIETY) CAN FULFIL OURSELVES.(INCLUDING PERSONAL DEFENSE, CARRY YOUR GUN!)

That would be great, but that society does not exist in this day in time. It seems to me that the majority of the people have a me first attitude, and everyone else can die. I do remember the stories when I was a child, but that was my Grandfathers generation and I'm 55 years old. Those people just don't exist anymore. Too bad.

 

[kcinnick]

That would be great, but that society does not exist in this day in time. It seems to me that the majority of the people have a me first attitude, and everyone else can die. I do remember the stories when I was a child, but that was my Grandfathers generation and I'm 55 years old. Those people just don't exist anymore. Too bad.

I am 26 and I don't hope or dream for the day we go back to that society, I am going to do whatever I have to to get back to that way of life. If we just say oh well, its not like that anymore and line up to get on the dole things will never change.

 

[Gus McCrae]

I am 26 and I don't hope or dream for the day we go back to that society, I am going to do whatever I have to to get back to that way of life. If we just say oh well, its not like that anymore and line up to get on the dole things will never change.

Excellent Post.

It's like when I'd tell people I was voting for Ron Paul..... Oh, I like him, but he'll never get there so I'm not voting for him......