COVID VAX

[El Pozzinator]

So, if we have the opinion that it is (or is not, doesn’t really matter) an individual choice to get vaccinated or abstain... where do we fall on a business’ right to refuse service to someone based on their vaccination status?

Personally I think vaccination is a HIPPA item and businesses (or other people, or an employer, or the government) have no right to know what ailments people have or what they’ve done or not done about them. Might as well make it legal to discriminate based on sickle-cell trait - oh, wait, that would be racist. But is it really any different? It’s a medical condition that affects only some people seriously, but anybody could carry it. Sorta like the ACTUAL data shows about all FOUR current variants of covid (Spanish, swine, avian, and “novel” / bat / Chinese / whatever we’re calling it). You want the jab? Cool. Go for it and good luck. You don’t want the jab? Cool. Good luck all the same.

Our society is founded on the principle that one person’s rights end at the exact moment where they infringe upon another person’s rights. We’re not ok banning guns just because some people are scared of them, and a ridiculously statistically insignificant percentage of the population misuses them. We’re not ok banning cars even though estimates indicate 10% of the population drives drunk regularly and 50% of the population speeds habitually. But we’re ok banning people from having an in-person social life because we can’t all get on the same page about an experimental treatment? “We” here being generally, not this group specifically. If we’re ok with that, we should be ok banning from social life 16-25 year old black males because statistically they commit the highest per capita percentage of violent crime and 25-40 year old white males because statistically they commit virtually all of the mass killings and acts of domestic terrorism. The point is, if we (again generally, not specifically) allow one limitation, then why not the other? It’s a slippery slope we’re being pushed toward.

Dunno. Maybe I’m just some jackwagon who spent 14 months of this mess sorting thru tens of thousands of pages of medical records to substantiate causes and manners of death in covid-positive patients which were actually NOT covid deaths...


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[foz1359]

Dunno. Maybe I’m just some jackwagon who spent 14 months of this mess sorting thru tens of thousands of pages of medical records to substantiate causes and manners of death in covid-positive patients which were actually NOT covid deaths...

Thanks for another injection of reality. You're clearly not just "some jackwagon". They thought you were just "some jackwagon" and would play along with their jackwagon directives ...and remain quiet. I'd go out on a limb and say you're a "top tier jackwagon" and I'm right there with ya.

 

[El Pozzinator]

The thing I suggest people do when they seek input on the jab is this:

Read your life insurance plan exclusions very carefully. I chose mine when my SGLI went out after receiving a DD214 solely based on a war clause and medical exemptions. I planned on getting out and going back to work for DoD, which I did, and needed a plan which had no war clause (most plans will not pay out if you die in an act of war, hence the benefits paid to 9/11 victims) and no medical exemptions (because sometimes other countries use treatment which in America are unapproved or designated experimental). If you die as a result of experimental medicine (which all covid-19 vaccinations currently still are) your plan may not be obligated to honor your benefit if your plan includes experimental or unapproved medical exemptions.

It’s what I’ve told my 70something parents, in-laws, and my 20something and 30something cousins, and friends and colleagues. Sometimes it’s not just the action or consequence we’ve got to worry about, but also the second and third-order effects.


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[buttanic]

Not sure I’d plan on speedy treatment at the hospital. Maybe magdump can give us an update on what the ER looks like. I know EMS told me last week they were stacking people they brought to ttt hospital in the hallway. They also said it took close to 2hrs to get one triaged.


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St Charles parish hospital, an Ochsner facility was advertising the monoclonal antibody infusion with times you can get it on Facebook. It's actually separate from the ER

https://www.stcharleshealthcare.org/monoclonal

 

[MOTOR51]

St Charles parish hospital, an Ochsner facility was advertising the monoclonal antibody infusion with times you can get it on Facebook. It's actually separate from the ER

https://www.stcharleshealthcare.org/monoclonal

Yes sir, I’ve known several people including family that has gotten the infusion. I was strictly referring to the ER.


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[Jack]

Since I'm probably the only guy in here that's been to Canada in the last few weeks, this lady is kinda dumb. She tried to skip the rules for entering a country that have been posted super clearly for over a year and are really straightforward.

- Negative lab test within 72 hours of entry, and PCR tests (do-at-home) do not count
- Vaccinated travelers don't have to quarantine
- Unvaccinated travelers have to quarantine wherever they're staying for another test on day 8, and for another week if still still positive.

That's it. Very straightforward. There's no such thing as a covid detention facility, you have to quarantine in a house or hotel or wherever you're staying and they call every few days to make sure you're still there. Unvaccinated people who enter the country by air are asked to spend the first 3 days of their quarantine in an airport hotel (i.e., the Hilton, not a prison) just to be safe; people that drive in are exempt from this part. Pain in the ass, but not a big deal. This woman didn't get vaccinated and got a test that wasn't accepted and they asked her to quarantine - not much of a surprise there. It says as much in the part of the article you didn't paste.

As someone who’s been to Canada once earlier this year and is in Canada right now, I can tell you that the rules are changing regularly, especially for non Canadians and are often clear as mud.

Both trips I’ve had to have written approval from the provincial government based on sworn notarized affidavits. Quarantine hotel the first time, and 14 day total quarantine, 72 hour test before, test at airport, test 8 days in. OPP came to visit a couple of times during the 14 days to make sure I was actually quarantining. Second time(as vaccinated) was told I again had to quarantine for 14 days, via the switch health and arrive can. Was told by 2 people no quarantine, 1 yes. Never got a message from the government or a call like the first time, so quit bothering with the quarantine after day 8 when my test never showed up.

Nobody was asked to quarantine in hotels before the vaccination exemption, you were required to show proof of booking and prepaying for a hotel before entry and the possible penalties for not staying in the hotel included fines of up to 750k and prison time. It also wasn’t just phone calls for a lot of people, for others it was physical visits from government officials. I personally had multiple at my place of quarantine(which surprised me as I was wayyyy out in cottage country).

At airports and border crossings(I’ve done both this year and multiple of both since covid started) the Canadian border services have ranged from excellent to having no ****ing clue what the rules are. There have also been work to rule stoppages which take a confusing situation and intentionally make it more difficult and arduous. My last entry was at the start of the most recent work to rule strike and lead to the crossing taking roughly 4 hours and being given all sorts of incorrect information from the border services people themselves.

Your one experience may have been good, but to say things are clear and have been clear for over a year and a half is just nonsense. The rules have changed multiple times and have changed as recently as Monday.

 

[Horrible]

As someone who’s been to Canada once earlier this year and is in Canada right now, I can tell you that the rules are changing regularly, especially for non Canadians and are often clear as mud.

Both trips I’ve had to have written approval from the provincial government based on sworn notarized affidavits. Quarantine hotel the first time, and 14 day total quarantine, 72 hour test before, test at airport, test 8 days in. OPP came to visit a couple of times during the 14 days to make sure I was actually quarantining. Second time(as vaccinated) was told I again had to quarantine for 14 days, via the switch health and arrive can. Was told by 2 people no quarantine, 1 yes. Never got a message from the government or a call like the first time, so quit bothering with the quarantine after day 8 when my test never showed up.

Nobody was asked to quarantine in hotels before the vaccination exemption, you were required to show proof of booking and prepaying for a hotel before entry and the possible penalties for not staying in the hotel included fines of up to 750k and prison time. It also wasn’t just phone calls for a lot of people, for others it was physical visits from government officials. I personally had multiple at my place of quarantine(which surprised me as I was wayyyy out in cottage country).

At airports and border crossings(I’ve done both this year and multiple of both since covid started) the Canadian border services have ranged from excellent to having no ****ing clue what the rules are. There have also been work to rule stoppages which take a confusing situation and intentionally make it more difficult and arduous. My last entry was at the start of the most recent work to rule strike and lead to the crossing taking roughly 4 hours and being given all sorts of incorrect information from the border services people themselves.

Your one experience may have been good, but to say things are clear and have been clear for over a year and a half is just nonsense. The rules have changed multiple times and have changed as recently as Monday.

So, this woman apparently didn’t follow the ever changing rules in Canada but what bothers me is why isn’t natural immunity and the presence of antibodies and natural immunity taken into account?

 

[Peacemaker]

I don't see the need for the panic... the fear... or how it is considered "selfish". It should be the right of the people to get or not get it... they shouldn't be threatened or pressured or called "selfish" by choosing not to get it. I COMPLETELY disagree with having to show PROOF of any medical history or vaccine status with some universal passport style card. Everyone is SO quick to throw their rights in the trash it's ridiculous.

Nowhere in the constitution does it say "be a good little boy and do exactly what we tell you because we know better than you do on how to care for yourself and your family." Wait until they start coming to houses with Child welfare and taking kids because their parents are recklessly putting them at risk by not getting them the vaccine. The teachers are worried about catching the virus, so lets vaccinate all of the children INSTEAD of the teachers???? This country is upside down and ass backwards at the moment and THAT scares the **** out of me... a lot more than any virus ever would.

Totally agree with the above statement.

I'm amazed at just how quickly Freedom is being surrendered for Safety! Before anyone says, no it's not, I give an emphatic "********"!, that's exactly what is happening. This country and it's people are free and that means free to decide in all matters what is best for themselves and their family. This is a free society, or at least it used to be.

These methods of coercion are no different than all of the rioting, tearing down statues, monuments, burning cities and businesses, doxing anyone that disagrees, false accusations of racism, whatever it takes to get the result the minority seeks..

That is a DEMOCRACY not a REPUBLIC.

This republic and it's people are being tested and in my opinion FAILING MISSURABLY.

I can only imagine how the 3% of the population felt rising up against the Brits in the Revolution. They had to feel enormous pressure that what they were doing was wrong but they went forward anyway.

 

[Keepurpowderdry]

Thumbs-up

 

[323MAR]

I had a few NBC classes while in the Marines. I remember the part about biological weapons. Those weapons are always used on civilian populations. No country will ever admit that a biological weapon is used and no country will ever admit to using one in retaliation.
I find it interesting that the People’s Liberation Army accused the US Army of targeting China with Covid 19. Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter accusations. It’s as if they admitted to this biological attack and tried to deflect blame to us, the target of the attack. It is well known that China used bots and shills to spread fake news in order to defeat Trump. It makes sense to me that they would do the same in order to discourage Conservatives from taking the vaccines in an effort to maximize the yield of their weapon and kill as many Conservatives as possible.
Everyone I know who of who died are Conservatives. This includes that Republican Representative from North Louisiana.
That also explains why the Democrats are trying to discourage Conservatives from taking the vaccines.

 

[BluewaterLa]

Totally agree with the above statement.

I'm amazed at just how quickly Freedom is being surrendered for Safety! Before anyone says, no it's not, I give an emphatic "********"!, that's exactly what is happening. This country and it's people are free and that means free to decide in all matters what is best for themselves and their family. This is a free society, or at least it used to be.

These methods of coercion are no different than all of the rioting, tearing down statues, monuments, burning cities and businesses, doxing anyone that disagrees, false accusations of racism, whatever it takes to get the result the minority seeks..

That is a DEMOCRACY not a REPUBLIC.

This republic and it's people are being tested and in my opinion FAILING MISSURABLY.

I can only imagine how the 3% of the population felt rising up against the Brits in the Revolution. They had to feel enormous pressure that what they were doing was wrong but they went forward anyway.

Well spoken and arguably one of the best comments I've read on here in a long time.

 

[homeslice]

I think we can all agree(even the pro-vax folks) that a nationwide vaccine mandate is not something anyone wants. No one here wants some overreaching government to force this down our throats. Yes, there is a heavy push in media to get it. But it's not a requirement except temporarily to enter certain areas, or participate in certain activities. I think this is absolutely fine, as a temporary measure, given we're in the middle of a pandemic.

But, I believe we've done this to ourselves by spreading misinformation, and refusing to wear masks diligently.

Oh last thing I want to comment on, the death rate. It is accurate, but does not paint the entire picture. Yes, 99% survive, some needing significant medical intervention, weeks in the hospital, hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills. They can also simply have lasting issues from Covid, reduced lung capacity, complete permanent loss of taste/smell, etc. And, we don't know the long term side effects of having had covid either. That is enough for me to cancel out the argument "we don't know long term about the vaccine."

 

[dantheman]

Has anyone changed their position on vaccinations based on anything they read on an internet forum or Facebook , etc. ? Not a rhetorical question .

 

[thperez1972]

As I said in the beginning, it is a personal choice for everyone and they shouldn’t be bashed for whichever they choose.

Maybe my sheep comment was a little harsh and hypocritical, but the passion behind it was that No one should get the vaccine just because the government says it’s “the right thing to do”.

I agree with you. I also think it is irresponsible for people to not get the vaccine just because the government says it’s “the right thing to do”.

 

[thperez1972]

So, if we have the opinion that it is (or is not, doesn’t really matter) an individual choice to get vaccinated or abstain... where do we fall on a business’ right to refuse service to someone based on their vaccination status?

Personally I think vaccination is a HIPPA item and businesses (or other people, or an employer, or the government) have no right to know what ailments people have or what they’ve done or not done about them. Might as well make it legal to discriminate based on sickle-cell trait - oh, wait, that would be racist. But is it really any different? It’s a medical condition that affects only some people seriously, but anybody could carry it. Sorta like the ACTUAL data shows about all FOUR current variants of covid (Spanish, swine, avian, and *novel* / bat / Chinese / whatever we’re calling it). You want the jab? Cool. Go for it and good luck. You don’t want the jab? Cool. Good luck all the same.

Our society is founded on the principle that one person’s rights end at the exact moment where they infringe upon another person’s rights. We’re not ok banning guns just because some people are scared of them, and a ridiculously statistically insignificant percentage of the population misuses them. We’re not ok banning cars even though estimates indicate 10% of the population drives drunk regularly and 50% of the population speeds habitually. But we’re ok banning people from having an in-person social life because we can’t all get on the same page about an experimental treatment? *We* here being generally, not this group specifically. If we’re ok with that, we should be ok banning from social life 16-25 year old black males because statistically they commit the highest per capita percentage of violent crime and 25-40 year old white males because statistically they commit virtually all of the mass killings and acts of domestic terrorism. The point is, if we (again generally, not specifically) allow one limitation, then why not the other? It’s a slippery slope we’re being pushed toward.

Dunno. Maybe I’m just some jackwagon who spent 14 months of this mess sorting thru tens of thousands of pages of medical records to substantiate causes and manners of death in covid-positive patients which were actually NOT covid deaths...

I believe HIPAA covers under what conditions certain entities can release your medical information. For example, it's not a HIPAA violation for a school to mention the specific child who may have tested positive although most schools claim it is. Schools are not covered under HIPAA unless they provide healthcare services to the students. And if that medical information is put in their school record rather than in a medical file, it doesn't fall under HIPAA. We can discuss the privacy aspect of it but only certain entities fall under HIPAA. I don't see restaurants listed as a covered entity.

§ 160.102 Applicability.
(a) Except as otherwise provided, the standards, requirements, and implementation specifications adopted under this subchapter apply to the following entities:
(1) A health plan.
(2) A health care clearinghouse.
(3) A health care provider who transmits any health information in electronic form in connection with a transaction covered by this subchapter.
(b) Where provided, the standards, requirements, and implementation specifications adopted under this subchapter apply to a business associate.
(c) To the extent required under the Social Security Act, 42 U.S.C. 1320a-7c(a)(5), nothing in this subchapter shall be construed to diminish the authority of any Iinspector General, including such authority as provided in the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended (5 U.S.C. App.).
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/f...d/hipaa-simplification-201303.pdf?language=es


With respect to any business who requires proof of vaccination from its customers, the business should, at a minimum, be required to post the proof of vaccination of every employee in a place where the public can view.

 

[dantheman]

The average person has no idea what HIPAA actually covers . Their perception usually comes from something they read on Facebook .

 

[El Pozzinator]

Heck I’ll admit being in error then. And I used to have to deal with it regularly in the course of death investigations. However I still don’t see what right it is of anyone to disclose or inquire about a private person’s healthcare status as a means of discriminating (eg deciding) whether or not to provide services to them. We’ve determined socially that it’s unacceptable for a bakery to refuse service to people with a higher statistical probability for certain communicable diseases than other people, so why do we find it acceptable to determine a person’s vaccination status? What about someone who’s immune compromised (ie transplant recipient, hiv patient, etc) and cannot take the vax? What about people with severe asthma who can’t wear a mask but choose to not live like hermits anyway? Would it make sense to allow people to individually assume risk and either vax or not based on their own research (however extensive or sparse)?

Again, not vilifying either side. Just trying to present points for debate.

I still don’t see how it’s any person or entity’s business what someone does within legal bounds and why discrimination based on medical grounds is ok, but clearly we’ve socially defined that any discrimination is wrong and unacceptable.


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[shrxfn]

With respect to any business who requires proof of vaccination from its customers, the business should, at a minimum, be required to post the proof of vaccination of every employee in a place where the public can view.

I had to go do some paperwork at the local courthouse and I have been vaccinated so didn't think about masks. They made me go back out and get a mask which in and of itself did not bother me but the one thing that did was that none of the employees of the parish or sheriffs deputies had a mask on and were walking around like it was nothing. So why mandate it for me and yet have everyone else not masked? It made no sense. Were they all vaccinated if so it should be posted just seemed hypocritical to me.

 

[Gus McCrae]

The vaccine reduces likelihood of death
The vaccine reduces the time where the infected can transmittal the virus by around 10 days

Those two things reduce the load on society (economically and health resources) so we can better get along with life.

I think getting vaccinated is really caring for your country.

 

[That Guy]

Is it safe to say at this point that getting the shot is not to stop the spread, but to minimize the symptoms of the virus? Sorry, I didn’t read the last 8 pages.