finally decided on my next pistol, glock

[Ian Johnson]

So after going from 1911, to hk, to cz(still gonna get one of these eventually) I have decided on getting a glock 19, why? Im tired of guns malfunctioning and i used to hate on glock big time cause I thought they were ugly and had crap triggers, then I gave one a try and it points very naturally and I really like the grip angle now. Now the only question is gen3 or 4?

 

[Sin-ster]

So after going from 1911, to hk, to cz(still gonna get one of these eventually) I have decided on getting a glock 19, why? Im tired of guns malfunctioning and i used to hate on glock big time cause I thought they were ugly and had crap triggers, then I gave one a try and it points very naturally and I really like the grip angle now. Now the only question is gen3 or 4?

Sadly to say, if you think it's not physically possible to run into a gun with "problems", you're mistaken. There's narry a manufacturer on the market that can boast that these days-- although the HK guys probably make the best claim.

That said... Glock is a pretty safe road to take in that regard. Much better than your 1911's, for sure.

Gen 3 or 4-- they've had issues in 9mm in recent production runs. The inherent design flaws of the 4s have been pretty well addressed, but... Even the recent-run 3s have issues with that nasty extractor, at times. I can put the caveat out that I've personally grabbed guns that were "known problem pistols" and run 50 rounds through them without a single ejection issue, but the point is that out of the box for the vast majority of owners/shooters, that particular gun wasn't up to snuff.

Scared yet? Don't be; your odds of getting a troubled pistol are still very low in the grand scheme of things.

Personally, I'd get a Gen 4 without question. The new mag release is enough for me; I think it's the best on the market by far, including any new-age aftermarket stuff you can find (many of which have problems of their own, unlike the Gen 4 factory unit). I also prefer the slightly different grip width of a Gen 4 with no backstrap, though you should check that out for yourself if you liked the feel of a Gen 3.

Now another caveat... I would not hesitate to pull the guts out of my brand new Gen 4 and put a Gen 3 trigger group in, just to see how I felt about it. I'd jerk that dual-captured spring out for a Jager conversion to the old style, just to see what it did. If I had a punky extractor, I'd pull the sucker out and put the files and stones to it to see what I could do-- though I'd probably pick up a spare to use if/when I borked up the original. Most of all, I'd have 4k rounds through it by the end of the month-- some problems would possibly disappear, and future ones would almost certainly have surfaced.

Scared YET? Don't be.

The G19 is so ridiculously popular, provided the gun itself wasn't a complete and utter lemon (and Glock would take care of you if that were the case), you'd have no trouble selling the thing off at a nominal loss. If for any reason you want to go another route, you could off load the thing in a matter of hours (asking a reasonable price for a used gun of course) and be on your way to buying/trying something new.

 

[Ian Johnson]

thanks for the input sinster, I wasnt implying that glocks are without malfunctions, they just have a good track record, I love my hi power but dont plan on carrying it as a back up while in the woods which is another reason I chose glock

 

[Sin-ster]

thanks for the input sinster, I wasnt implying that glocks are without malfunctions, they just have a good track record, I love my hi power but dont plan on carrying it as a back up while in the woods which is another reason I chose glock

Indeed, their track record is good and well earned. But following the trend of what seems to be ALL manufacturers these days... they've run into a problem or two in recent years. Just wanted to give you the heads up on that, and possibly save some frustration.

 

[Ian Johnson]

LSP972, never had an hk or cz jam on me, just found things about the gun like grip and trigger that I didnt like, sorry for the confusion

 

[saint451]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIwHkBvzJZg&feature=player_embedded

Gen3 or 4, if video works explains a few things.

 

[Leadfoot]

Okay. Yeah, HK triggers can be pretty bad, in some examples.

.

*cough* LEM *cough*

 

[Hardballing]

Luke, come over to the dark side. You'll like it here.

 

[Sin-ster]

What problems have HKs 'run into'?

.

They were purchased by the British, and then sold back after 11 years? They put out the G36 and Mark 23?

No, seriously-- nothing consistent, other than that particular pistol (forget the model) that kept having a rust issue with some trigger group part and was promptly fixed. But the two biggest HK fanboi's I know both vehemently claim that QC "isn't what it used to be" in the whole of the manufacturer's line.

IIRC, it came after one had a trigger bar break and the other had an extraction/ejection issue on two new pistols. Both considered flukes, but it apparently sold them (along with what they were hearing on those elite HK forums I suppose...)

Like I said-- HK still has by far the greatest claim to "perfection out of the box", but when you pay the big bucks after hearing (and knowing, through use of your other dozen HKs) of their durability/reliability, I suppose any little thing might leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[Sin-ster]

I thought we were talking about pistols here?

Dunno anything about the G36; never even seen one; but the Mark 23 Crew-Served Handgun was built to the exact specification called for by the government. The troops didn't like it because it was so huge and cumbersome. But it worked/works fine.

I bought a brand new/recent production P30 Monday. It is as finely crafted as all the others I own/have handled. So I dunno where your pals are getting this "QC is going down" business, but you couldn't prove it by me.

The "rust issue" was with the trigger bar plunger on the P2000... in salt water environments only. They changed it to a stainless part.

.

The G36 and Mk23 were just a poke.

I couldn't prove that M&Ps experience sear flutter, unlock early, have potential mag release issues, or wear out slide stops faster than similar guns-- even though I have 45k through a 9 Pro, 5k more through its backup, and 10k through a 45. All of which have seriously cut sears, strikers and safety plungers, and bent discos-- and the most shot of which has been welded up and reshaped internally t'boot.

But if reports are to be believed, especially by the experienced masters like Randy and Scott at APEX, Todd Green (broke a slide stop IIRC) and Dan-the-man Burwell, I'm gonna listen.

If HK put out 1 bad part in every 5k guns it sold in this country prior to 1991, and now they put out 1 bad part in every 4k, that's still a 20% drop-- even if it is a very, very, very impressive track record and only leaves you a .025% chance of finding one with every purchase you make. (And how likely are most owners to shoot the gun enough to actually figure out they've got an odd stress point in their trigger bar?)

 

[JBP55]

Randy and Scott at Apex are the best known vendors for M&P trigger components.
Dan Burwell is one of the best known in the nation for M&P trigger work.

 

[Hardballing]

Ian,

GREAT choice for your pistol.

Don't be swayed by the HK kool aid fan club. They have to purchase overpriced plastic to overcome the size of their tiny...

Real men who are secure in their masculinity and prowess carry Glocks. Worldwide. 24/7. Welcome to our number.



(now shaking off the poop stirring stick, drying via paper towel, and leaving it standing ready for round two)

 

[ericlosh]

My latest was an m&p, nice little gun, was between that and a g26' so good choice op.