Florida Seizing Guns Under New Gun Control Laws.

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,779
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Well I’m not a doctor but in a lot of cases it’s not complicated. The guy who stripped naked in the parking lot of a gas station last night and laid in the middle of the gas pumps is a prime example. I’m thinking he didn’t need to possess a firearm.

    Yes, I've been to those calls. I've transported people to the mental ward because there was no medical emergency and EMS doesn't transport mental patients. And while they are being evaluated, they are not in possession of a firearm. If you brought your guy in for evaluation, he would also not be in possession of a firearm. But if it's determined he does not need to be involuntarily committed, he is released. That indicates the danger to himself and society is minimal or nonexistent. Or at least it should.

    On what basis do the experts then decide to remove a specific weapon while leaving all the others? If it's appropriate to restrict a person's right to bear arms, would it not also be appropriate to restrict other potential means of potential harm that are not rights? And where do you draw the line? When you cross over from being an actual danger to being a potential danger, the pool of people meeting the requirements grows quite a bit. A number of people I served with overseas were diagnosed with PTSD. They could all be argued to be potential dangers to themselves and society, even without exhibiting any signs of actual danger. A vet in Florida can potentially go in to talk to a doctor about becoming frequently frustrated and be labeled by the "expert" as a danger and have their rights stripped based on the "potential" standard.

    But I thought I saw somewhere the new Florida law had to requirement of some sort of threat, not just the potential. Although I can't readily find more on the new law other than a bunch of articles about it being used. So either I am wrong, there's more to this story than is being published, or someone overstepped their authority.
     

    Kraut

    LEO
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Oct 3, 2007
    1,801
    83
    Slidell, LA
    Laws like this concern me due to the abuse/misuse of the process I've seen over the years with Orders of Protective Custody issued by the coroner's office on weak complaints.
     

    miscverb

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    42   0   0
    Nov 23, 2016
    715
    43
    Destrehan LA
    Sounds like this guy shouldn't have guns. I see no problem with this.

    and that IS THE PROBLEM. you see no problem, it is what you don't see that is the problem. do you know who made the decision, do you know how the decision was made, do you have any facts? you only have one side of the story and there are NO REQUIREMENTS defined that state all of the above. one day someone, somewhere for some reason may decide YOU can't do this, or should not have that... then you will SEE the problem.
     

    chrisdcd

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 17, 2017
    51
    6
    anywhere
    As an FFL, a responsible gun owner, and an overall firearms advocate.....if this story is accurate as read, why wouldn't they take his firearms away? These kinds of warning signs are what need to be acted upon. I do agree that it could ultimately be abused by government, but it sounds like this guy certainly is not mentally competent.
     

    chrisdcd

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 17, 2017
    51
    6
    anywhere
    There is no doubt its coming. With the way society is changing, and the way school shootings are becoming so prevalent, how can it not? I believe an all out "assault" weapons ban is not that far away again. I personally don't see how anyone could not justify taking someones firearms away that is going down crazy street. People are changing, and it's not for the better. I tried to put myself in the place of one of those parents that lost a child in the last school shooting, and look at it from that perspective.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,779
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    As an FFL, a responsible gun owner, and an overall firearms advocate.....if this story is accurate as read, why wouldn't they take his firearms away? These kinds of warning signs are what need to be acted upon. I do agree that it could ultimately be abused by government, but it sounds like this guy certainly is not mentally competent.

    That's the wrong question. I do not have to justify why you should keep your rights. You must justify why you would take someone's rights away. So why would they take the weapons away? What were the warning signs? Did he make any direct threats toward himself or others. Did he make any implied threats toward himself or others? If it was determined he was mentally incompetent, was that determination made before or after the weapons were taken away?
     

    chrisdcd

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 17, 2017
    51
    6
    anywhere
    That's the wrong question. I do not have to justify why you should keep your rights. You must justify why you would take someone's rights away. So why would they take the weapons away? What were the warning signs? Did he make any direct threats toward himself or others. Did he make any implied threats toward himself or others? If it was determined he was mentally incompetent, was that determination made before or after the weapons were taken away?

    Well, if we could have asked the Vegas shooter what was wrong with him maybe we could get some insight into why seemingly "normal" people commit mass murder. This guy was a seemingly legitimate gun enthusiast, business man, good citizen, until he murdered 20 something people. So I say, if you run across someone that claims invisible FBI agents and neighbors that are shape shifting are robbing him, take his guns until he gets his s@#t together. On the flip side of your argument, what's it going to hurt? I don't mind giving a little for the better good. I know the age old argument, give an inch they take a mile. That may very well be true, but what is the alternative? Do nothing? Crazy people should not have guns man. If you can give one reason what good it does to allow a delusional individual to keep their firearms, I'm listening. The government has to get their act together and enforce the laws we have. The last school shooter and the church shooter should have never been allowed to purchase a firearm as per 4473 regulations. Now just because someone has the ability to legally obtain a firearm does not mean that at some point in the future they don't have the ability to continue to responsibly own one. Whatever the case may be, mental illness, committing of a crime, etc. My point is, just because a person can purchase a firearm now, does that mean they should never be questioned after that?
     

    Gladesman

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 21, 2017
    9
    1
    Rayville
    I am not familiar with the details of the new law in Florida. I would worry about the lack of due process. I would worry about the potential for one using the law for revenge, such as an ex-spouse accusing a guy inappropriately. Also, what about guys on prescription drugs for chronic pain? Lots of questions as to where the lines will be drawn. I think that law was passed for political expedience. There were enough mistakes made by officials that did not follow current law. We do not need additional laws until we learn how to use the ones we have.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,779
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Well, if we could have asked the Vegas shooter what was wrong with him maybe we could get some insight into why seemingly "normal" people commit mass murder. This guy was a seemingly legitimate gun enthusiast, business man, good citizen, until he murdered 20 something people. So I say, if you run across someone that claims invisible FBI agents and neighbors that are shape shifting are robbing him, take his guns until he gets his s@#t together. On the flip side of your argument, what's it going to hurt? I don't mind giving a little for the better good. I know the age old argument, give an inch they take a mile. That may very well be true, but what is the alternative? Do nothing? Crazy people should not have guns man. If you can give one reason what good it does to allow a delusional individual to keep their firearms, I'm listening. The government has to get their act together and enforce the laws we have. The last school shooter and the church shooter should have never been allowed to purchase a firearm as per 4473 regulations. Now just because someone has the ability to legally obtain a firearm does not mean that at some point in the future they don't have the ability to continue to responsibly own one. Whatever the case may be, mental illness, committing of a crime, etc. My point is, just because a person can purchase a firearm now, does that mean they should never be questioned after that?

    I do mind giving a little. I'm not going to volunteer to give up my rights so you can feel better.

    How do you know he was delusional? When was that diagnosis made? Was it before or after his weapons were taken away? He was placed involuntarily in a treatment facility. He was, one would reasonably assume, separated from his weapons and could not use them to do harm to himself or others. If during the evaluation it was determined he was a threat, you then have a case for removing them.

    I agree we should enforce what we have. If he is shown to be a danger to himself or others, remove his weapons. If you suspect he could be, no. Every combat veteran who has been diagnosed with PTSD could be a potential threat to himself or others. Would you support a preemptive confiscation "for the better good?"

    You will never legislate evil out of society, no matter how many rights you are willing to give up. I'm not saying everyone should always have access to guns. I'm saying there is a process involved with stripping someone of their rights. With respect to guns, the process should be showing they are a threat, not that they could be a threat. "Could be" can be used to describe every gun owner if you really wanted it to.

    Again, did he make any direct threats toward himself or others. Did he make any implied threats toward himself or others? What is the criteria for labeling someone as a "potential risk?"
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Isn't it curious how government (in some form or fashion), with the help and permissiveness of citizens (mostly phony liberals and democrats), is slowly taking away or watering down every Constitutional Right, or variation thereof, and has a regulation for damned near every US Citizen to adhere to for anything they used to partake in freely; except the one thing that puts more criminals on the planet than anything else; unfettered birth?

    You can't wipe your own ass today without having a government sanctioned sewerage system to deposit it in, but you can be an ignorant, uneducated, unskilled, undisciplined, child, single woman, single man, proven or potential derelict father, or street thug, be drug addicted, alcoholic, violent, criminal, disease ridden, homeless, non-caring individual, have no job, have no plan, have nothing at all; and have as many kids to dump on society you wish with no boundaries or ramifications whatsoever.

    The illegitimate birth rate in the country for blacks is over 75%. For whites it's over 45%. The government doesn't even release stats for other races?!?

    Think about all of the things you do in your personal day to day life (except breathing), and count how many activities you can partake in without some regulatory body having some impact on it. You should only need one hand! By the way; running over to Scenic Hwy and impregnating a crack whore is not one of them, unless you offer her something other than an ejaculate! Hell, even that my be construed as a proposition! Hows that for government?

    I get it! Government entities are taking guns away from prospective lunatics. Slippery slope and all that! I doubt these new laws will have anywhere near the destructiveness and long term negative impact on your future and your guns as these feral children will have when they come home to roost en mass!
     

    chrisdcd

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 17, 2017
    51
    6
    anywhere
    I do mind giving a little. I'm not going to volunteer to give up my rights so you can feel better.

    How do you know he was delusional? When was that diagnosis made? Was it before or after his weapons were taken away? He was placed involuntarily in a treatment facility. He was, one would reasonably assume, separated from his weapons and could not use them to do harm to himself or others. If during the evaluation it was determined he was a threat, you then have a case for removing them.

    I agree we should enforce what we have. If he is shown to be a danger to himself or others, remove his weapons. If you suspect he could be, no. Every combat veteran who has been diagnosed with PTSD could be a potential threat to himself or others. Would you support a preemptive confiscation "for the better good?"

    You will never legislate evil out of society, no matter how many rights you are willing to give up. I'm not saying everyone should always have access to guns. I'm saying there is a process involved with stripping someone of their rights. With respect to guns, the process should be showing they are a threat, not that they could be a threat. "Could be" can be used to describe every gun owner if you really wanted it to.

    Again, did he make any direct threats toward himself or others. Did he make any implied threats toward himself or others? What is the criteria for labeling someone as a "potential risk?"

    Sorry, I think you might have me a little confused. Anyone giving up their rights doesn't make me feel better. That's you being a little dramatic and unreasonable. I don't mind giving a little for the greater good. The reality is, I don't have a thing to worry about because I am a responsible law abiding citizen. We can agree to disagree.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,779
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Sorry, I think you might have me a little confused. Anyone giving up their rights doesn't make me feel better. That's you being a little dramatic and unreasonable. I don't mind giving a little for the greater good. The reality is, I don't have a thing to worry about because I am a responsible law abiding citizen. We can agree to disagree.

    The greater good is not achieved by giving up some of your rights. The only thing achieved is people feeling good because they think they've made a difference. And, as a law abiding citizen, you do have something to worry about. The more people think like you, the fewer rights you will have.

    You stated the government has to get their act together and enforce the laws we have. There are laws on the books to remove weapons from those who have been deemed a treat to themselves or others. But you're ok with lowering the standard from a real threat to a potential risk. So I will ask again, did he make any direct threats toward himself or others. Did he make any implied threats toward himself or others? What is the criteria for labeling someone as a "potential risk?"

    Obviously you are free to answer those questions or not answer those questions. You've ignored them so far so I really don't think you're interested in an actual discussion. And without a discussion, we will certainly have to agree to disagree. I am not willing to surrender my freedoms so you can feel good. You don't seem to mind so much.
     

    freedive10

    -Global Mod-, Caballoloco
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Sep 17, 2008
    2,165
    63
    Mandeville
    Sorry, I think you might have me a little confused. Anyone giving up their rights doesn't make me feel better. That's you being a little dramatic and unreasonable. I don't mind giving a little for the greater good. The reality is, I don't have a thing to worry about because I am a responsible law abiding citizen. We can agree to disagree.

    So let me get this straight. You’re ok with giving a little of your rights away for, *The Greater Good*? If that’s the case then that’s what worries all those unwilling to negotiate our RIGHTS away. It’s not a perfect world and there is no clear 100% proof solution but chipping away at our rights is the wrong direction to take, anyway you put it.
     
    Top Bottom