Govt Monopoly on Charity

[SVT]

Ok so there's obviously not a gov't monopoly on charity....but they sure are trying in NC:

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/...st-Volunteers-Feeding-Homeless-Without-Permit

http://lovewins.info/2013/08/feeding-homeless-apparently-illegal-in-raleigh-nc/

Police Threaten to Arrest Volunteers Feeding Homeless Without Permit

What Happened

On the morning of Saturday, August, 24, Love Wins showed up at Moore Square at 9:00 a.m., just like we have done virtually every Saturday and Sunday for the last six years. We provide, without cost or obligation, hot coffee and a breakfast sandwich to anyone who wants one. We keep this promise to our community in cooperation with five different, large suburban churches that help us with manpower and funding.

On that morning three officers from Raleigh Police Department prevented us from doing our work, for the first time ever. An officer said, quite bluntly, that if we attempted to distribute food, we would be arrested.
"They will arrest me if I give you a biscuit."

Me addressing the crowd. *They will arrest me if I give you a biscuit.*

Our partnering church brought 100 sausage biscuits and large amounts of coffee. We asked the officers for permission to disperse the biscuits to the over 70 people who had lined up, waiting to eat. They said no. I had to face those who were waiting and tell them that I could not feed them, or I would be arrested.

In the past, we have had a good working relationship with the Raleigh Police Department. We knew that we could not use the park itself, as doing so required a permit, but that it was acceptable to set up on the sidewalk, as long as we did not block the sidewalk and cleaned up after ourselves. We have operated, unmolested, under this assumption for the last six years.

By the way, each permit to use the park costs $800. Yes, eight hundred dollars. That would cost us $1,600 every weekend, and the officer we spoke to said the City likely wouldn’t approve it anyway.

No representative from the Raleigh Police Department was willing to tell us which ordinance we broke, or why, after six years and countless friendly and cooperative encounters with the Department, they are now preventing us from feeding hungry people.

When I asked the officer why, he said that he was not going to debate me. *I am just telling you what is. Now you pass out that food, you will go to jail.*

What We Will Do

Simple: we will feed people. I am, after all (however imperfectly), a follower of Jesus, who said himself that when we ignore hungry people, we ignore him.

We knew that with the upcoming revitalization of Moore Square, we would have to find alternative arrangements. We have been working to that end, but as the revitalization is currently unfunded, and has no start date, we felt we had some time.

What We Won’t Do

We appreciate all the ways you have written in to suggest that we could subvert the system, but to do that only admits to the City of Raleigh that its argument is legitimate. We maintain that we have done nothing wrong.

We feed people and have been doing so, and much more, for six years. On the weekends people have no where else to go other than the park because Wake County and/or the City of Raleigh offers no soup kitchens or other options on the weekends. None. There is no *official* place you can get a meal if you are homeless or at-risk of homelessness. You are left to your wits, and for the last six years, you could get a cup of hot coffee and a hot breakfast sandwich from us – because you could not get one from any tax funded location.

We have not hidden. Our work of bringing biscuits to the park has been mentioned in multiple full-page articles in the local paper over the years. We have had countless routine conversations with the police while doing this alleged illegal activity. We do not hide. And while, according to the City of Raleigh, it might be illegal to feed hungry people, it is most assuredly the right thing to do.

What You Can Do

Several things. While it was Raleigh Police Department that threw us out of the park and threatened to arrest us, we realize they are acting under orders. Ultimately, they serve the interests of the Mayor and the City Council. In the words of the officer in charge today, *You need to take it up with the City Council.*

And if history has taught us anything, it is, as Frederick Douglas said, that *power concedes nothing without demand.*

1. Below are the email addresses and phone numbers of the Mayor and of the City Council members. We encourage you to email them and ask A) why organizations, such as Love Wins Ministries, are being prevented from feeding people in the park, when the City of Raleigh has no means of or plans to feed them and B) encourage them to allow said feeding to continue. continue to call and voice your concern. We spoke with the Mayor yesterday, and while she did say that no one will be arrested for feeding hungry people in the park, it’s important to continue to make your voice heard. The status quo is not acceptable.

Keeping in mind that we win over no one with anger or rudeness. Anger does not cast out fear – only love can do that.

 

[JNieman]

I'm not sure what that story has to do with the alleged Government monopoly on charity.

 

[SVT]

I'm not sure what that story has to do with the alleged Government monopoly on charity.

didn't mean to imply there was an actual monopoly on charity via govt....edited my post above.

 

[JNieman]

didn't mean to imply there was an actual monopoly on charity via govt....edited my post above.

Imply? It was the title of the thread and content of your OP, originally.

It's a fee they charge anyone; I doubt they're specifically singling out a charitable group. There's just no /exception/ for charitable groups. If someone wanted to change something, I'd bet asking the city council to make such an exception, or an alternate, reduced, fee for charitable setup would be more productive.

 

[SVT]

Imply? It was the title of the thread and content of your OP, originally.

I did not mean to imply it which is why my actual post clarifies for all to see that it was not my intent at all.

It's a fee they charge anyone; I doubt they're specifically singling out a charitable group. There's just no /exception/ for charitable groups. If someone wanted to change something, I'd bet asking the city council to make such an exception, or an alternate, reduced, fee for charitable setup would be more productive.

They charge the fee to anyone USING the park...they are not using the park for their charitable services, and haven't been for 6 years. No one claimed they were singling out charitable groups. No one claimed an exception should be made for them either. I agree, they should go to the city council, which is exactly what they requested everyone do in the article.

 

[Leonidas]

Just more Christian trouble makers. Why, the very idea of feeding hungry people. Shame on such law breakers.

 

[BenCarp27]

Just in an effort to play Devil's Advocate: What led to the City's spontaneous response to shut the group down? According to the article I read, the group has been doing this for years, without incident.
I'm just wondering if the giveaway began drawing greater crowds of homeless, most often times drug addicts and drunks, which started creating a problem for local homeowners and business on the mornings that the giveaways occurred.
And, before I get crucified, I'm not trying to imply that all homeless are drug addicts and drunks.
I'm just trying to understand why the city, whom had never hindered the group in the past, decided to shut it down.

 

[Emperor]

Just more Christian trouble makers. Why, the very idea of feeding hungry people. Shame on such law breakers.

Why do you goody gum drops even try to help your fellow man out of the goodness of your hearts?

When will you whacky Catholics realize you're not the darlings of the religious world right now. Now, maybe if you behead a homeless person, you can get the peacefulness back in your faith.

 

[JNieman]

I think an exception should be made for charitable groups. Reduced fees/permits at the least. That might be something that works out for everyone involved.

 

[Leonidas]

Why do you goody gum drops even try to help your fellow man out of the goodness of your hearts?

Character flaw?

 

[SVT]

Just in an effort to play Devil's Advocate: What led to the City's spontaneous response to shut the group down? According to the article I read, the group has been doing this for years, without incident.

Great question, no one knows yet.

I'm just wondering if the giveaway began drawing greater crowds of homeless, most often times drug addicts and drunks, which started creating a problem for local homeowners and business on the mornings that the giveaways occurred.

I do not think bigger crowds were the issue b/c iirc, the article says they've been bringing 100 biscuits every weekend for 6 years, and only 70 people showed up this particular weekend. But, local homeowners and businesses could have complained...but if that's the case, why didn't the leo just say "we've had complaints"?

And, before I get crucified, I'm not trying to imply that all homeless are drug addicts and drunks.

You JERK! That's exactly what you were trying to say!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm just trying to understand why the city, whom had never hindered the group in the past, decided to shut it down.

b/c the gov't hates competition, and they hate charity that doesn't lead to more votes for themselves

 

[BenCarp27]

I just find it odd that out of the blue, what was once a tolerated event, suddenly became an issue.
I'm all for generosity and charity, and I can fault no one for feeding the hungry. However, it could be very possible that the 70+ crowd they drew on the mornings of the giveaways began loitering around after receiving their food, and creating an issue that lasted hours past the group's presence.

 

[SVT]

I just find it odd that out of the blue, what was once a tolerated event, suddenly became an issue.
I'm all for generosity and charity, and I can fault no one for feeding the hungry. However, it could be very possible that the 70+ crowd they drew on the mornings of the giveaways began loitering around after receiving their food, and creating an issue that lasted hours past the group's presence.

It would be nice to get an update on this to see what the real issue was....i'll search a little to see what's out there.

 

[JNieman]

Trying to find more about /why/ the sudden change, and the best I can do is 'read between the lines'

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9218431

"I can't tell you why it kind of came up just now, I think it's really been recognized that its growing and growing, there's more need," McFarlane said. "I'm sorry for the confrontation or whatever happened yesterday, but I think the outcome is going to be good."

quote from one of the homeless people counting on those meals:

*Personally, I have somewhere to lay my head, but that doesn’t mean I have food in my kitchen all the time,* Andrews explained. *I understand downtown is getting bigger. I feel like they are trying to flush us out and get rid of the riff-raff. I don’t know where they’re going to run us to.*

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/25/3135843/police-stop-charities-feeding.html#storylink=cpy

From a local page, regarding another charity also feeding people, on a property now owned by the city:

Liability question

While lunch was being served, a Raleigh police officer stopped by to tell Pratt and other organizers that Bill McLaurin, the lot’s owner, was on his way to speak to them. A few minutes later, McLaurin arrived and had a conversation with Pratt and other organizers.

Afterward, McLaurin told reporters that another group has permission to use the lot to feed the homeless.

McLaurin said he was willing to talk to the Human Beans Together folks about using the lot, but added that the group will have to arrange for liability insurance in case someone gets injured on the property when they are using it.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/25/3135843/police-stop-charities-feeding.html#storylink=cpy

There was also mention that they were cracking down on permitless usages like that, not just for that group, but others as well.

Looks like the city is trying to reduce liabilities and maybe stop some of the free passes they allowed others to have, though maybe this specific group had the spotlight on them because the offerings were getting bigger and bigger, as was mentioned. /shrug