Help with vehicle gun issues

[OneStory]

Thread title: Help with vehicle gun issues

CloudStrife doesn’t have a CCW permit so we’ll assume that he is not carrying a gun. BUT, he has a gun that he keeps in his vehicle…

While trying to focus on just the vehicle gun aspect of his situation, let’s collectively troubleshoot his situation in order to help him make the most of it.

At the same time we’ll be helping others make wise choices that could very well save a life.

Quick note: I am by no means an expert or am pretending to be. I’d just like to “help a brother out” as I’d like to be helped.

I don’t know if he’s got money to blow but most of us don’t so let’s try to work with what he has and not recommend expensive improvements.

Here we go…what we have so far…

“I pull it out of its holster and put next to my right thigh. It's "secured" under my seat. I drive a 2-seater so it can't be pulled from behind the seat, and the cavity goes back far enough that I have had to stick my whole arm under my seat to reach the gun. I do have a hidden glove box I should probably put it in, which is locked using my car key.” – Cloudstrife

This is all we have, so far…We’re gonna need some more info from Cloudstrife. More on that later…

POSITIVES:
#1 He has a gun. Great! Wise choice. I assume that it is loaded.
#2 The gun is in a holster. Great, again! Lots of good reasons for storing the gun in a holster.
#3 When he is in the vehicle, the gun is next to his right thigh. I assume that he is right handed so this puts the gun within easy reach for a fast draw. Very important!
#4 The gun is kept under his seat when he is out of the car. Okay. At least it is not in sight.
#5 While under the seat, the gun is far back and difficult to reach. Okay. This will make it more difficult for a thief or kid to find.
#6 The vehicle has a lockable hidden glove box. Nice. I would guess that one reason he doesn’t use it for the gun is that it is more of a pain than the under the seat storage method.

Before we jump in with the NEGATIVES, let’s get some more info from him.

THINGS WE MIGHT NEED TO KNOW:
#1 What kind of gun and ammo? We’d like to work with what you have already but need to be sure that what you have is adequate for human consumption.
#2 Details about the holster? You may end up not using a holster but let’s find out about that as well.
#3 Next to right thigh? How exactly? Would the gun be in the same exact spot after a crash? Would you be? Seatbelt usage? Airbag?
#4 Gun under seat while stored? Is it just laying there in the holster? Secured to vehicle in any way? In the same exact spot and oriented the same way every time? How fast can you get to it and get it in play? Are you reaching for it with your left hand or right? Ever practiced getting it while being attacked?
#6 What kind of car is it exactly? Where is this hidden glove box? How “hidden” is it? Would your common thief know where it is? If you put it in there, would you lock it every time? The lock is a typical piece of crap, right? Do you have a car alarm? If you do, how diligent are you using it?

I know the thread sounds elementary so far. I hope it doesn’t insult the intelligence of any BSer. No matter how “advanced” some of us may be, I’d like to keep it simple so gun owners and potential gun owners can understand the advice given. Like I said earlier, it may save a life…or two.

It takes some guts to allow a bunch of people to critique something you are doing. Let’s show some respect by putting our flame-throwers aside while adding to this thread. Thank you.

Cloudstrife, info please.

 

[CloudStrife]

1. Right now it's a Smith Model 66 .357 Mag. It may be a 9mm or 45 at other times.
2. The holster is just a leather holster that was given to me with the gun. I use it just to protect the gun when it's not next to my leg.
3. The gun sit next to my thigh with the hammer facing up so I can grip it without having to shift it. If I were in a crash, I'd likely still be in my seat (seat belt and air bag), but I doubt anything else would stay put.
4. It sits in its holster under the seat. It's not physically secured. I put it under the seat while holding the grip, so I could pull it out in the same manner. The grip faces toward the front of the car. I use my right hand to reach for it. I've never practiced reaching under my seat for it since it shouldn't be under my seat when I'm in the car.
5 (or 6). It's a Honda S2000. Here's a pic of the glove box I found on google.

The hidden glove box is the curved part above the normal glove box. I found it by accident (or maybe the sales guy showed me. I can't remember). Since S2000s aren't very common, I doubt many thieves know anything about them. The lock uses my car key. I haven't checked out the mechanism, but locking it doesn't allow you to press the release tabs. I'm not sure how tough it is. Since the whole housing is plastic, I'm sure a crow bar could pop the door off. The car has an engine demobilizer (something to do with the key) but nothing like a proximity alarm.

 

[JR1572]

We know about your hidden glove box now.

JR1572

 

[LACamper]

Since you're using a revolver what are you doing for extra ammo? Or do you plan on finishing the encounter on what's in the gun?
I'd be temped to 'modify' the console to fit your gun and a speed loader or two...
If a thief breaks in he's going to get the gun. Accept it and move on. Or buy a steel lockable mountable box... But then there goes your access time. I've opted for the insure it and forget it attitude.

 

[jato]

I mounted a serpa holster in my console, which is lockable. That way the gun will never shift and I can grab it blind since its always in the exact same spot. I lock the console whenever i'm not in in the car just to make a would be thief have to work for it if he wants it that bad. hope this helps some, it's the best way I found at least until I get my ccw.

 

[blanepara9]

Ford Explorer, I press the galco holster inbetween the drivers seat and center console, its easy access and the snuggness of the fit acts like a pocket holster, only the gun comes out if pulled. I cant use under the seat as I sit close to the steering wheel and it would be difficult to get. It sits right in front of the seatbelt right now.

 

[CloudStrife]

Since you're using a revolver what are you doing for extra ammo? Or do you plan on finishing the encounter on what's in the gun?
I'd be temped to 'modify' the console to fit your gun and a speed loader or two...
If a thief breaks in he's going to get the gun. Accept it and move on. Or buy a steel lockable mountable box... But then there goes your access time. I've opted for the insure it and forget it attitude.

I figure six rounds at a guy standing at my window will be enough. I'm about to order some soft cases (and toss the giant plastic ones that come with some pistols) that I'll put my 1911 or G34 in with some extra mags.

I'm hoping no thief will think to reach so far under my seat.

I mounted a serpa holster in my console, which is lockable. That way the gun will never shift and I can grab it blind since its always in the exact same spot. I lock the console whenever i'm not in in the car just to make a would be thief have to work for it if he wants it that bad. hope this helps some, it's the best way I found at least until I get my ccw.

I've never thought to cut or drill on the interior of my car.
Do you have your console open when you drive? I always imagine someone approaching my car at my door with a gun, in which case I'd need to grab the gun and blast them through the window rather quickly. I think reaching for my console might give the bg time to react.

 

[jato]

I drive with my arm resting on the console and my hand naturally sits on the release lever. it takes me less than 2 seconds to have the gun in hand. I understand thats a long time if there is a shotgun pointed at me, but I figure if I hit the gas as I'm grabbing the gun I have a decent chance.

I used 3 #12 course thread screws to mount it. If I ever remove it the only thing you will see is a few holes on the inside of the console.

 

[CloudStrife]

I'll take a look at mounting positions. I think under the steering wheel might work for me.

 

[OneStory]

1. Right now it's a Smith Model 29 .357 Mag. It may be a 9mm or 45 at other times.
2. The holster is just a leather holster that was given to me with the gun. I use it just to protect the gun when it's not next to my leg.
3. The gun sit next to my thigh with the hammer facing up so I can grip it without having to shift it. If I were in a crash, I'd likely still be in my seat (seat belt and air bag), but I doubt anything else would stay put.
4. It sits in its holster under the seat. It's not physically secured. I put it under the seat while holding the grip, so I could pull it out in the same manner. The grip faces toward the front of the car. I use my right hand to reach for it. I've never practiced reaching under my seat for it since it shouldn't be under my seat when I'm in the car.
5 (or 6). It's a Honda S2000. Here's a pic of the glove box I found on google. The hidden glove box is the curved part above the normal glove box. I found it by accident (or maybe the sales guy showed me. I can't remember). Since S2000s aren't very common, I doubt many thieves know anything about them. The lock uses my car key. I haven't checked out the mechanism, but locking it doesn't allow you to press the release tabs. I'm not sure how tough it is. Since the whole housing is plastic, I'm sure a crow bar could pop the door off. The car has an engine demobilizer (something to do with the key) but nothing like a proximity alarm.

3-5-7 !!! Perfect for human consumption!
You stated that you may substitute other guns...that is nice for the range and stuff but not for gunfights. You will be on autopilot when the fight comes and don't need the possibility of a split second screwup caused by different guns. If they were all revolvers of the same build and functionality, it would be okay.
IMO, you need to pick one and go with it for now. I wouldn't pick the revolver, due to reduced round count, unless your skills with it and its reliability exceed a higher capacity gun.

The holster was given to you with the gun? Does that mean the gun was given, as well? Maybe that is why you use it in your car - the most likely place for it to be stolen? Your car is small and would probably take less than thirty seconds for a good thief to thoroughly search.
Leather is good. A holster will keep most of the trash out of the gun that would otherwise cause problems.

I've never been physically comfortable with a gun tucked under my thigh while driving. If you do, great...but the gun is probably not going to be there after a crash...
Driving away or over the threat is usually best - once you are seated and the engine is running. Otherwise, you may have to use the gun. Since the altercation may begin and/or end with a crash of some sort, you need to be sure that the gun is exactly where you need it to be.

Concerning the time between when you approach the car and when you have the gun securly in hand AND vice versa when you leave the vehicle: This is a VERY dangerous time. BGs know that, once you are seated and the car is running, you have a much higher chance for escape even if you didn't have a gun. They are most likely to attack you at that critical time when you are most vulnerable. This danger can be lessened with a high state of awareness and caution when entering and exiting the vehicle.

Your car is fast and nimble...this is good. Just realize that you probably aren't going to be ramming or pushing your way out of trouble. You probably won't be jumping curbs or leaving the roadway. And, you will probably be imobilized if rammed at the beginning, middle or end of a vehicle gunfight. All the more reason to have the gun part honed. You are probably not going to be driving AND shooting - most people can't do that well or at all...especially if your car has a manual transmission.

A car alarm would be helpful. I was pleasantly surprised at my Viper alarm. I use it religiously and hope it will scare away all but the most persistant thief. Sports cars attract attention - good and bad - as you know. My alarm tells me if someone messed with my vehicle while I was gone...before I get to it and, consequently, in the danger zone. If the BGs are waiting around for my return, because the alarm foiled their earlier attempt, I have more indication than without the alarm. The alarm also remotely starts the vehicle (which is real nice to heat up and cool down the vehicle before I get in it) but also can save those few precious seconds I may need to get away. If you keep the alarm separate from your key ring, you may be able to shut the car down as a would be carjacker tries to drive away in your car!

I don't want to make this post too long. People tend to skip over and skim long posts. So I'll add more later...

There isn't going to be a PERFECT setup for you. Everything is a trade off but you have room for improvement - enough room to possibly make the difference between gunfight success and ...?

 

[Born4spd]

S2000

 

[LACamper]

I used to carry a 5 shot taurus .38 snub and thought that was plenty. I pulled up at a stopsign in Desire housing project (long time ago and was work related) with 4 guys on the corner. They decided to mess w/ me. I was able to drive out of the situation but realized that 5 shots for 4 guys was not enough, even w/ a speed loader. I swapped it out for a 12 shot 9mm w/ a few extra mags...

Now I opt for a .380 keltec for ccw and a truck gun handy. The truck gun is either a 1911 w/ a few extra 10 round mags or an 870.

 

[CloudStrife]

It's next to my thigh, not under. In any case, I don't know how I should secure the pistol in my car.

It's a stainless S&W my dad gave me (pretty much every gun I have has come from him. AR, FAL, G34, Model 29, 870, and a few others. He's also given me a .500S&W and a .44 Mag S&W, but I traded those back to him for other guns). It was his duty gun once upon a time. Now that I think of it, while it's a .357, I probably shouldn't use it in my car. I'll switch it out for my Para GI Expert 1911 or G34. Which one do y'all prefer. I have Gold Dots for the 45 and Corbon DPX for the Glock.

 

[LACamper]

The G34. No big loss if a glock gets stolen...

 

[OneStory]

It's next to my thigh, not under. In any case, I don't know how I should secure the pistol in my car.

It's a stainless S&W my dad gave me (pretty much every gun I have has come from him. AR, FAL, G34, Model 29, 870, and a few others. He's also given me a .500S&W and a .44 Mag S&W, but I traded those back to him for other guns). It was his duty gun once upon a time. Now that I think of it, while it's a .357, I probably shouldn't use it in my car. I'll switch it out for my Para GI Expert 1911 or G34. Which one do y'all prefer. I have Gold Dots for the 45 and Corbon DPX for the Glock.

I'm not sure how you should secure the pistol in your car either...right now. As we learn more about your situation, and get some good advice from others, it will become more clear what the best way will be. For now, you'll be tempted to change guns, move it around and try different setups. Go ahead and experiment. Only you will be able to decide what is best for you in the end.

I'm a little sensitive about theft since it hit close to home recently...My son got home late at night. It was raining/sleeting, windy and very cold. He left his pistol in his glove box instead of taking it with him as he usually does because he was tired and anxious to get inside and get to sleep. Well, a thief picked that night, of all nights, to steal from some cars on that street and my son's MP3 player and pistol were stolen - among other things. The pistol is a Springfield XD40 that was given to him by his father.

IF he would have taken it with him, IF he would have hid it better, IF he had an alarm, IF the pistol was cheap but reliable and not one that meant so much to him, IF I would have talked to him about it a month before when I noticed that is where he kept it, IF,IF...IF he had given it more thought ahead of time like you are doing...

If all of your guns are equally valuable to you, pick the one that you are best with for now. If this thread runs its course in the next week or so, you should have much more info at your disposal for making long term changes.

Thanks for your cooperation thus far.

 

[sraacke]

#3 When he is in the vehicle, the gun is next to his right thigh. I assume that he is right handed so this puts the gun within easy reach for a fast draw. Very important!

I perfer to keep the gun holstered and on my belt at all times. If I have to remove the gun it stays in the holster, I remove the holster from the belt and secure the gun.

 

[OneStory]

don't let anyone see your gun

I used to keep my pistol next to or partially under my thigh while driving. I decided to stop doing that and find another place to keep it that is in no way visible from the outside of the vehicle. Here’s why:

Imagine the following scenario…

You are driving to work and have just passed a couple of “pokey” vehicles and stop at the next light. One of the vehicles you passed has a liberal, gun-hating, middle aged woman driver with a child in the back seat. She’s thinking, “there is that axxhole who just raced passed me in an all fired hurry to only end up right next to me at the red light. There he is, a young guy in a sports car who cares only for himself while endangering others on the road! I’d like to give him a piece of my mind…is that a GUN? Oh my gosh, he has a GUN! Only bad people and drug dealers have GUNS!” ...

…”911, what’s your emergency”…

“Yes! There is a guy driving erratically and cutting people off! Why, he almost ran me off the road! He could have KILLED me and my BABY! HE BRANDISHED A GUN!!!”…

She hangs back while following you and giving your description to the authorities.

Soon, you are forced over by multiple LEOs with their guns drawn and ordering you out of the car and face down onto the boiling hot asphalt.

You are “acting” surprised and, while being handcuffed, deny everything just like all perps do.

Then the woman rolls up. She’s crazy from all of the excitement and the “car chase”. She is hopped up on adrenaline and her baby is screaming from the back seat as an officer goes over to comfort the “victim”.

Maybe your boss will understand why you were late…maybe you have no priors and no traffic tickets…maybe your gun and car are confiscated and you are carted off to jail…maybe the woman cuts you a break and doesn’t press charges…maybe she calms down and realizes you didn’t do anything wrong and sets the record straight…maybe her pride and ego gets in the way or she wants to make an example of you and she won’t admit that she was wrong…

Either way, it probably wasn’t worth it.

Think this story is far-fetched? Think people can’t see one thing and imagine another? See my next thread…

 

[OneStory]

it happened to me

This is what can happen …it happened to me…I was 15 yrs old…

A friend and I were walking home from the grocery store one night. We were a few blocks from my house in an area where nothing exciting ever happens. My friend carried a brown paper bag with a bag of Doritos in it. We were walking along the side of the store when a car with the driver’s window rolled down pulled up and blocked our path.

The driver said loudly, “Whatchall got in that bag?” As he shifted in his seat, I caught a glimpse of his pistol in a shoulder holster. I said, “Oh f**k, he’s got a gun!” while nudging my friend to get him moving. I turned and ran and dogged and zigzagged across the parking lot and street.

I only looked back once to see if he was gaining on me. What I saw was the bad guy standing next to my friend who was up against the wall. The bad guy had his arm outstretched towards me and I could see the small round shiny circle of the streetlight reflecting off the end of his barrel silhouetted by the rest of his gun. It was pointed right at my head!

I redoubled my efforts. Jumped into the sharp thorny bushes across the street and didn’t feel a thing.

It turns out that the “bad guy” was actually an undercover LEO in an unmarked car. He denied having pulled his gun.

My friend ran smack into the brick wall and didn’t make it three feet before being “captured”. He remembers nothing between when I nudged him and five minutes later. After twenty-five years, he’s still pissed that the cop ended up with his Doritos.

Even though I was beginning to have a little doubt about exactly what happened, I gave my version to the LEO’s supervisor as I saw it.

I enquired later as to what became of the incident and the LEO. I only got hearsay about a severe reprimand due to the incident and other screw-up’s. I also heard that he may have been fired.

Hey man, if you’re out there and read this, you know that you should have identified yourself. If the same thing happened again to the man I am today, you would likely be dead and I would be in a load of trouble for having killed a LEO. If you really didn’t pull your gun and point it at me, I’m very sorry that I said you did. Now that I know about what fear and adrenaline and stress, etc…can do to people, I have even more doubt that what I “saw” was really what happened.

 

[sraacke]

After twenty-five years, he’s still pissed that the cop ended up with his Doritos.

So, let me get this straight... You were walking home, not breaking any laws and some guy blocks you with his car and steals your friends' Doritos? Dude, you sure it wasn't Steven Segal, Lawman?

"The law says you have to be 18 years old to have corn chips. I'll just take these for safe keeping."

 

[LSUFoolsball69]

I just put it in my Glove box of my Civic!