Heroin: Making a comeback with avengence

[D-DAY]

When you were arrested by dirty cops after shooting up your closet and having dope and a hype kit in your pants where did that originate?

See, this is one of the main problems with this site. Instead of addressing the substance of what he is posting and trying to refute it, you try to decrease his credibility by pointing out/attacking his character. Can we stay on topic please?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Who plead guilty to it?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

See, this is one of the main problems with this site. Instead of addressing the substance of what he is posting and trying to refute it, you try to decrease his credibility by pointing out/attacking his character. Can we stay on topic please?

He is spreading a garbage theory blaming the Heroin on the government. His character is a huge part because it goes to his credibility. Heroin has been a huge problem in this country since the turn of the 20th Century. It's never left. It's being noticed again because its left the ghetto and made roots in the suburbs. Your noticing it because its effecting people you know. If you want the root cause look at Doctors over prescribing narcotic pain killers, and lazy Americans who would rather treat symptoms the easy way than the actual cause of the pain.

 

[Leonidas]

He is spreading a garbage theory blaming the Heroin on the government. His character is a huge part because it goes to his credibility. Heroin has been a huge problem in this country since the turn of the 20th Century. It's never left. It's being noticed again because its left the ghetto and made roots in the suburbs. Your noticing it because its effecting people you know. If you want the root cause look at Doctors over prescribing narcotic pain killers, and lazy Americans who would rather treat symptoms the easy way than the actual cause of the pain.

Agreed. A huge part of the problem is lazy Americans who would rather vastly expand and profit from criminalizing behavior rather than actually dealing with the root causes of its use.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Ahhhh a legalize it fan. When you show me an example of any place in the world where legalizing heroin has worked I will agree.

 

[Jack]

So Tim's theory is based on Taliban policy from 2001, but completely ignores the years before and after, the fact that the Taliban now uses opium to make money, and that the United States is trying to convince opium farmers to grow alternative crops.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Taliban's 2001 efforts were more effective than ours because they told a bunch of illiterates that growing opium was against the will of god and threatened(and probably followed through) death.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Hanging Opium Farmers is 100% effective at getting them to stop growing Opium.

 

[JNieman]

Ahhhh a legalize it fan. When you show me an example of any place in the world where legalizing heroin has worked I will agree.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.

One anecdote that paints an interesting picture so far, but I don't know anything big-picture other than this article I read a while back. I think use should be decriminalized, but dealing some drugs should remain illegal and punishable.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html


One anecdote that paints an interesting picture so far, but I don't know anything big-picture other than this article I read a while back. I think use should be decriminalized, but dealing some drugs should remain illegal and punishable.

Portugal and The Netherlands are the examples people typically cite. If you continue the Research you'll see the rest of the story; Associated Crime ie Property Crimes, Prostitution, Human Trafficing, Robbery, etc doesn't decrease. Areas of cities get ceded to Junkies, and most importantly Junkies get paid Disability. That's right they become full time Junkies.btheir life style is subsidized by tax payers. I fail to see how that's a win. To me it just seems like shifting a problem set.

 

[D-DAY]

He is spreading a garbage theory blaming the Heroin on the government. His character is a huge part because it goes to his credibility. Heroin has been a huge problem in this country since the turn of the 20th Century. It's never left. It's being noticed again because its left the ghetto and made roots in the suburbs. Your noticing it because its effecting people you know. If you want the root cause look at Doctors over prescribing narcotic pain killers, and lazy Americans who would rather treat symptoms the easy way than the actual cause of the pain.

At least he posted a source. Heroin, as with many other drugs in history has had it's ups and downs, and it is currently on a massive upswing. Enforcement mentality made the laws surrounding heroin much harsher and that probably had a little to do with the down swing. That coupled with easily obtainable pharmaceutical alternatives for the new users. As I mentioned in my first post, the DEA has been cracking down on pill mill doctors and pharmacies, this affects the street supply of pharmaceutical grade opioid drugs. Less supply, higher cost leaves addicts seeking alternatives. Heroin is cheap and easy, but bears the "no going back" price tag.

I know what the problems are as I get to see them every day. Your over generalized blame is misplaced, and has little to do with the actual causes of addiction.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

His source was Wikipedia...

 

[D-DAY]

Portugal and The Netherlands are the examples people typically cite. If you continue the Research you'll see the rest of the story; Associated Crime ie Property Crimes, Prostitution, Human Trafficing, Robbery, etc doesn't decrease. Areas of cities get ceded to Junkies, and most importantly Junkies get paid Disability. That's right they become full time Junkies.btheir life style is subsidized by tax payers. I fail to see how that's a win. To me it just seems like shifting a problem set.

Source?

Also, there may be other issues affecting crime in those areas other than drugs or addicts.

 

[oleheat]

Why would anyone think the criminal aspect would see an improvement just because "it's legal"? I wouldn't look for a nosedive in criminal activity just because drug charges disappear....


I'm sure someone could offer a theory on that- but I'm of the opinion in order to buy into it you'd have to be high in the first place.


But that's just me.

 

[D-DAY]

His source was Wikipedia...

Still better than yours so far.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I know what the problems are as I get to see them every day. Your over generalized blame is misplaced, and has little to do with the actual causes of addiction.

In what capacity? I ask not as a dig at you but because this is a 4D issue and I'm interested what perspective you looking at it from. DEA is cracking down on Pill Mills. What are they doing about docs who just over prescribe?

 

[D-DAY]

Why would anyone think the criminal aspect would see an improvement just because "it's legal"? I wouldn't look for a nosedive in criminal activity just because drug charges disappear....


I'm sure someone could offer a theory on that- but I'm of the opinion in order to buy into it you'd have to be high in the first place.


But that's just me.

Just an idea, but instead so spending billions of dollars every year on militarizing the enforcement agencies who deal with these issues, maybe we could spend some of that money on better rehab centers and treatment options, studies on causes of addiction, and possibly even subsidize the drugs themselves to make them dirt cheap.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/2270789

http://www.drugfree.org/join-togeth...ecriminalization-no-model-for-u-s-expert-says


So your in favor of subsidizing Drug Users? Like Socialized Medicine? It's just money right? Wait how's that debt crisis in Portugal going. I wonder if the estimated $99Million they spend on Dope Fiends, Portugal had about 10 Million People, impacts the budget?

 

[oleheat]

Just an idea, but instead so spending billions of dollars every year on militarizing the enforcement agencies who deal with these issues, maybe we could spend some of that money on better rehab centers and treatment options, studies on causes of addiction, and possibly even subsidize the drugs themselves to make them dirt cheap.

So we spend the money on more research & better treatment options- and at the same time make the drugs the cost the same as a bag of Fritos?

I wonder which option the average junkie is going to choose?


But even so- many of the people addicted to these substances seem to have problems holding gainful employment. Wonder how they'll fund their addiction?


I dunno man..Just throwing things out there. I don't see a quick fix (no pun intended) to this issue....

 

[D-DAY]

In what capacity? I ask not as a dig at you but because this is a 4D issue and I'm interested what perspective you looking at it from. DEA is cracking down on Pill Mills. What are they doing about docs who just over prescribe?

Pharmacist. I have family that work at the TAU center also.

Florida is a majority of the problem. The overwhelming majority of narcotics in the US come from there. Florida has tried to change their laws, and the DEA has focused efforts there over the last few years to combat this problem. There are at least 2 doctors in New Orleans and 1 in BR that I know of that are under investigation for over-prescribing. The problem is the length of time they give them before anything is done. Often times they prescribe for years before a major agency either steps in or just shuts them down. The money is too good to pass up.

 

[D-DAY]

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/2270789

http://www.drugfree.org/join-togeth...ecriminalization-no-model-for-u-s-expert-says


So your in favor of subsidizing Drug Users? Like Socialized Medicine? It's just money right? Wait how's that debt crisis in Portugal going. I wonder if the estimated $99Million they spend on Dope Fiends, Portugal had about 10 Million People, impacts the budget?

Remind me again how much we spend each year on the War on Drugs? And remind me how much we have spent so far since its inception?