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My Personal Path Away From The 1911
BY Hilton Yam | Posted on 03/03/2014 by Hilton Yam | IN
10-8 Performance
1911
Modern Service Pistols
It has been noted more than once that lately there seem to have been many MSW articles recommending against the use of the 1911 as a service pistol. This is not really a new trend, and even since the days of the 10-8 Forums we have always cautioned folks that the 1911 is not for the casual user.
Starting with IPSC back in the 80′s, I traveled a long road of being a devoted user of the 1911 in both competition and duty applications, a builder of custom 1911s, and a designer of 1911 components. The last 15 years or so had seen the 1911 absolutely dominate my existence, and everything I did seemed to revolve around the gun. With all this devotion to the 1911, it is even more telling then why I went away from it.
The first catalyst for changing platforms had to do with some rather extensive tendonitis issues that I had developed in both elbows, which was both caused and aggravated by using a heavy steel framed gun firing .45 ACP. Going to a 9mm 1911 helped a little, but the headache of chasing function on different 9mm 1911s started to turn me off and led me to start experimenting with the M&P in 9mm at the end of 2011. After only a short retraining cycle, I quickly learned that I was able to match my performance standards using the M&P. This first rather serendipitous step made me realize that I did not need the 1911 trigger or ergonomics as a performance crutch.
Over the years, I have had numerous agencies and individual LEO’s ask me for advice on selecting 1911s for service use. The longer I was involved in this effort, the more failures I saw in the concept of the 1911 in a role as service pistol over more modern designs. One agency with whom I had a close relationship required some assistance getting their fleet of Kimber 1911s running correctly. Fast forward 4 years and a lot of visits and phone calls to help troubleshoot broken down guns, and I was eventually able to convince this agency to discontinue the use of their team 1911s and have the team use the M&P issued to the rest of the agency. The phone has been very quiet since they went to the M&P. While some have taken issue that it was a small sample (sure, only over 30 guns with all the same problems….not a trend at all), their problems were fully representative of common 1911 ailments – magazine issues, feedway issues, slide stop problems, extractor problems, loose plunger tubes, and intensive maintenance/inspection.
The tally after initial test firing at our 1911 class in Arizona, August 2013.
Tim and I taught a few 1911 specific classes in the last couple years, and we typically saw a failure rate of over 50% of the student pistols in each class. Something that really resonated with us was a pair of LEO’s who came to one class with the 1911s that they carried for work. The guys enjoyed the class so much they came back again the following year. This second time they still brought their 1911s, but told us they started to carry Glocks at work after seeing all the things that went wrong with the student guns and how difficult it was to keep the guns in top shape.
Being bombarded with nothing but the failures of the 1911 design, day in and day out – days, nights, weekdays, weekends, in person, on line, via email, by telephone, at work, on vacation – pretty much wore me out for the charm of tinkering with the gun. It is one thing to keep after 1-2 of your own 1911s, and a whole other matter to be a professional surrounded by guns constantly seeking your attention.
There has been an industry wide move away from the 1911 in serious training circles. At the last three classes I attended, none of the students were shooting 1911s. While I have attended more than my share of classes with a 1911 and finished without issue, I have seen plenty of shooters struggling with poorly set up guns. Those shooters would probably have had a more enjoyable time if they had brought a less troublesome pistol. When most shooters with modern pistols went to the line with 2-3 magazines of 15+ rounds, it could get really tiresome juggling 4-6 8rd magazines just to keep up with the drills.
It is easy to get caught up in the mystique and history of the 1911, but the design is over 100 years old, and we have learned a few things about designing and manufacturing since then. If you enjoy the craftsmanship of a finely built 1911 or you enjoy tinkering on your own, by all means continue to enjoy them. However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern. These days I spend much less time at the workbench fixing my training guns or having to wonder if the latest build or mod will work. I no longer need the 1911 as a crutch, and can now just concentrate on the performance.
← Previous Next →
My Personal Path Away From The 1911
BY Hilton Yam | Posted on 03/03/2014 by Hilton Yam | IN
10-8 Performance
1911
Modern Service Pistols
It has been noted more than once that lately there seem to have been many MSW articles recommending against the use of the 1911 as a service pistol. This is not really a new trend, and even since the days of the 10-8 Forums we have always cautioned folks that the 1911 is not for the casual user.
Starting with IPSC back in the 80′s, I traveled a long road of being a devoted user of the 1911 in both competition and duty applications, a builder of custom 1911s, and a designer of 1911 components. The last 15 years or so had seen the 1911 absolutely dominate my existence, and everything I did seemed to revolve around the gun. With all this devotion to the 1911, it is even more telling then why I went away from it.
The first catalyst for changing platforms had to do with some rather extensive tendonitis issues that I had developed in both elbows, which was both caused and aggravated by using a heavy steel framed gun firing .45 ACP. Going to a 9mm 1911 helped a little, but the headache of chasing function on different 9mm 1911s started to turn me off and led me to start experimenting with the M&P in 9mm at the end of 2011. After only a short retraining cycle, I quickly learned that I was able to match my performance standards using the M&P. This first rather serendipitous step made me realize that I did not need the 1911 trigger or ergonomics as a performance crutch.
Over the years, I have had numerous agencies and individual LEO’s ask me for advice on selecting 1911s for service use. The longer I was involved in this effort, the more failures I saw in the concept of the 1911 in a role as service pistol over more modern designs. One agency with whom I had a close relationship required some assistance getting their fleet of Kimber 1911s running correctly. Fast forward 4 years and a lot of visits and phone calls to help troubleshoot broken down guns, and I was eventually able to convince this agency to discontinue the use of their team 1911s and have the team use the M&P issued to the rest of the agency. The phone has been very quiet since they went to the M&P. While some have taken issue that it was a small sample (sure, only over 30 guns with all the same problems….not a trend at all), their problems were fully representative of common 1911 ailments – magazine issues, feedway issues, slide stop problems, extractor problems, loose plunger tubes, and intensive maintenance/inspection.
The tally after initial test firing at our 1911 class in Arizona, August 2013.
Tim and I taught a few 1911 specific classes in the last couple years, and we typically saw a failure rate of over 50% of the student pistols in each class. Something that really resonated with us was a pair of LEO’s who came to one class with the 1911s that they carried for work. The guys enjoyed the class so much they came back again the following year. This second time they still brought their 1911s, but told us they started to carry Glocks at work after seeing all the things that went wrong with the student guns and how difficult it was to keep the guns in top shape.
Being bombarded with nothing but the failures of the 1911 design, day in and day out – days, nights, weekdays, weekends, in person, on line, via email, by telephone, at work, on vacation – pretty much wore me out for the charm of tinkering with the gun. It is one thing to keep after 1-2 of your own 1911s, and a whole other matter to be a professional surrounded by guns constantly seeking your attention.
There has been an industry wide move away from the 1911 in serious training circles. At the last three classes I attended, none of the students were shooting 1911s. While I have attended more than my share of classes with a 1911 and finished without issue, I have seen plenty of shooters struggling with poorly set up guns. Those shooters would probably have had a more enjoyable time if they had brought a less troublesome pistol. When most shooters with modern pistols went to the line with 2-3 magazines of 15+ rounds, it could get really tiresome juggling 4-6 8rd magazines just to keep up with the drills.
It is easy to get caught up in the mystique and history of the 1911, but the design is over 100 years old, and we have learned a few things about designing and manufacturing since then. If you enjoy the craftsmanship of a finely built 1911 or you enjoy tinkering on your own, by all means continue to enjoy them. However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern. These days I spend much less time at the workbench fixing my training guns or having to wonder if the latest build or mod will work. I no longer need the 1911 as a crutch, and can now just concentrate on the performance.
