Hole-y cases, Batman! "SOLVED"

[GIJeaux]

Allrighty guys. I need your help.
Years ago I found this casing among a bunch of turned in range brass. (Army installation)
I have never found out what in the heck it was used for. What it shot. What shot it, etc. Shoot, I can't find out anything at all about it. Pretty sure it was not a "blank" of any kind. Maybe one of you holds the key.

It appears to be a standard NATO 7.62x51 case except that it has six evenly spaced (manufactured that way) holes on top of the shoulder. It is headstamped LC 82. There, now you know exactly what I know about it.

Thanks in advance for you help and or interest.
Al

 

[peterf225]

It might be a round used in "live fire" training. It could be a blank but the holes allow the gases to exit at the neck and operate the action. Just my $.02.

 

[GIJeaux]

It's a thought. I do believe it was loaded with a projectile though. Maybe a "Frangible Ball" projectile. I just don't know.

Thanks for your input. Always worth 2 cents to me.
Al



M160 Frangible Ball projectile for use 7.62x51 Nato. I have never seen one of these "loaded" in a case. It might be the answer to the strange case.

 

[schnugee]

I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night...

Every frangible round I fired in the service was the standard cartridge, only the projectile was different. I don't see how these holes could assist the action, as the M16 uses the pressure between the chamber and projectile that has advanced beyond the gas block to blow the bolt back. The holes I see in the picture would allow pressure to escape towards the rear of the chamber.

Only thing I can think of would be that someone had de-milled this case for some strange reason.

Again, not an expert.

 

[GIJeaux]

I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night...

Every frangible round I fired in the service was the standard cartridge, only the projectile was different. I don't see how these holes could assist the action, as the M16 uses the pressure between the chamber and projectile that has advanced beyond the gas block to blow the bolt back. The holes I see in the picture would allow pressure to escape towards the rear of the chamber.

Only thing I can think of would be that someone had de-milled this case for some strange reason.

Again, not an expert.

Every .30 cal. Frangible Ball I have seen is in fact loaded in a standard case, I agree.
I assure you that this is not a de-mil. but, made this way.
In the Army when you complete range operations all residue (brass, clips, ammo boxes etc.) must be turned in and accounted for (+/- "Field loss").

When I went to turn in the residue from a range that I had ran we were told to put all brass in this bin and all clips (M60) in that bin etc. An Aviation unit was ahead of me (not saying that the rounds have anything to do with Army Aviation, I don't know) and had just dumped a heck of a lot of these in the bin and left before I could ask them any questions about it. I am certain that this case was maunufactured with the holes and was fired with the holes.

The civilian that worked at the turn in point knew nothing about them. He only knew that brass went in this bin, clips went in that bin etc.

Thank you for your input.
Al

 

[schnugee]

Some kind of tracer round?

 

[scubasteve]

A homemade "one hitter"?

 

[highstandard40]

I have a friend who is a cartridge collector. I'll ask him.

 

[GIJeaux]

I have a friend who is a cartridge collector. I'll ask him.

Thank you.
Al

 

[GIJeaux]

Some kind of tracer round?

Could be. Since the round was already fired I just don't know what projo was in it.

A homemade "one hitter"?

Not "homemade". Manufactured this way. There were at least 5,000 of these in the bin that I got it from.


Thanks
Al

 

[GIJeaux]

Here is another shot along side some Ball, Tracer and Blanks.

Al

 

[GIJeaux]

That is a 7.62 round that was fired in a sub-caliber device for an M-67 90mm recoilless rifle.

The sub-caliber device is the same size and shape as a live HEAT round, but has a rifled barrel in it.

The six oval holes punched out of the shoulder are for lowering the velocity of the bullet BEFORE is exits the device and travels dowen the tube.

What THAT does is make the bullet travel the same trajectory as the full-scale warhead, for cheap practice and improvised zeroing of the weapon's sight.

We used to bounce .308 rounds off of an M-60 tank that they would drive back and forth for us. And there was always a track head (armor crewman) there to make sure no live HEAT ammo was anywhere around...

.

Thank you so much LSP972. And now I know. Now we all know.
It looks like the holes are "OVAL" because they might have been punched into case prior to the necking and that caused the hole to oval.

We still had 90mm's at 7th ID in the early 80's. All makes sense now. Thanks again and be well.
Al

p.s. I will try to find another weird one in amongst my goodies.

 

[GIJeaux]

FM 23-11 States:

b. The M49A1 subcaliber device (fig. 16.1)
consists of a long, cylindrical sleeve, a barrel, a
bushing with an integral hinge, a locknut housing,
a firing pin: and attaching hardware. The device
utilizes a case blow-out principle through
six equally spaced holes in the chamber shoulder
section of the barrel. These holes permit the
cartridge case to be blown out, and limit the pressure
which in turn lowers the velocity to match
ballistically the major caliber round.
c. The trajectory of the 7.62mm subcaliber cartridge
is about the same as the major caliber
cartridge; however, there is a telescopic reticle
mismatch. When firing tables III and IV to
zero the M49A1 subcaliber device, the system
should be zeroed at approximately 80 percent
of the maximum range of the targets to be engaged
in order to minimize absolute mismatch at
any point in the trajectory.

Not hard to find when you know what you are looking for. Appearantly the holes happened at the time the round is fired and not during manufacture. LSP972, can you verify this? Anyway..........

Thanks to everyone for their help, especially LSP972.
Be well all
Al

 

[richiespng]

Thank you so much LSP972. And now I know.

And knowing is half the battle.

 

[GIJeaux]

Man, I'm gonna have nightmares about that monster tonight. It was/is a BAD mama-jammer, but boy did it get heavy on a hump. It weighs 37 pounds without the sight; live HEAT rounds are nine pounds each, the sight is another two pounds or so.

You were in the wrong outfit. All 90mm's I seen in the 7th ID were mounted on M151A1s with trailers for the "Rifle Food". I was an FO and I had plenty to hump with all of my comms and crap. But, the CO always thought it was a good idea that I carry a mortar bullet or two along with that. I have felt he pain. Thanks again.
Al

 

[GIJeaux]

I was just thinking about that. What a coincidence. Could have been 106mm's. I am Field Artillery.

Al

 

[schnugee]

Thanks for the knowing response. I always like being around persons more educated than myself!

 

[scubasteve]

Our guns were mounted in turrets positioned on a 50000 dwt Battleship.