House Blocks Big Army Cancelation of Carbine Competition

[Hitman]

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ne-competition.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=9

The House Armed Services Committee passed a budget amendment Thursday aimed at preventing the Army from canceling its improved carbine competition without conducting the final, soldier evaluation phase.

It's been five years since Army leaders announced the plan to search for a replacement for the M4 Carbine, originally made by Colt Defense LLC. Now program officials are in the process of canceling the competition before it's completed and reprogramming the $49.6 million requested in the proposed fiscal 2014 budget to buy 30,000 new Individual Carbines, Military.com reported May 2.

So was Big Army/Pentagon going to end the competition, and just buy 30,000 more Colts?

Was Colt losing the competition? (Seen this theory on several blogs/websites)

Anyone with more insight?

 

[SGT_Kramer]

I know the SCAR was supposed to begin being fielded with line units later this year but seems as of late no talk of it. They were supposed to introduce a piston kit for M4 also BUT WERE STILL RESEARCHING SEVERAL DIFFERENT VERSIONS AND HAD NOT RELEASED FUTHER INFORMATION. oops hit caps and too lazy to fix it lol

 

[Captain_Morgan]

Is a new weapon system really needed? What improvements would be realized by fielding a more modern weapon?

If the Army felt it was prudent to cancel the competition and just buy more of what works (with money that was already in the budget), why mess with their decision?

 

[SGT_Kramer]

Is a new weapon system really needed? What improvements would be realized by fielding a more modern weapon?

If the Army felt it was prudent to cancel the competition and just buy more of what works (with money that was already in the budget), why mess with their decision?

LOL problem is they already spent the money and now congress wants to see results.... I'm sure that's what the round about is coming from.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I know the SCAR was supposed to begin being fielded with line units later this year but seems as of late no talk of it. They were supposed to introduce a piston kit for M4 also BUT WERE STILL RESEARCHING SEVERAL DIFFERENT VERSIONS AND HAD NOT RELEASED FUTHER INFORMATION. oops hit caps and too lazy to fix it lol

Wrong Scar-L is DEAD. The is not considering any Piston Modification Kits. They are not part of any of the PIP Programs and the Intermediate Carbine is a new Rifle not a modded one. No the Army was canceling the program because in a rare surge of brain function they realized that they were going
To spend 100s of Millions for Rifles that were at best marginally better than the exsisting ones. What's the point. The Army awarded the M4 Contract to FN-USA. Colt no longer has it.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

LOL problem is they already spent the money and now congress wants to see results.... I'm sure that's what the round about is coming from.

No they spent some money. The vast majority of it is unspent but if the program continues the Price Tag will balloon as the down select leads to low run production and limited fielding trials.

 

[Hitman]

Army weapons officials are defending their decision to stop the service’s improved carbine competition early, saying that none of the eight participating gun makers performed well enough to replace the M4 Carbine.

*I want to make it very clear none of the vendors met the minimum requirements which allowed them to pass into* the final phase of the competition, Brig. Gen. Paul Ostrowsk, the head of Program Executive Office Soldier, said during a June 14 briefing with reporters.

Army officials maintain that the Army’s reliability requirement for the Individual Carbine effort proved unreachable for Adcor Defense Inc., Beretta, Colt Defense LLC, FNH-USA, Heckler & Koch, Lewis Machine & Tool, Remington Defense and Troy Defense.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...liability-standard.html?ESRC=sm_todayinmil.nl

 

[LACamper]

I still say they need a new cartridge... Something midsized, maybe .250 or .260 caliber, 100 - 125 grain, 2800+ fps. Something that with different ammo changes the performance from long range to cqb. It could be done...

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

But why?

 

[returningliberty]

But why?

Agreed. Why switch calibers? The 5.56 is working in general.

Imo, the army was right to cancel the program. I don't think we need a new rifle until someone comes up with a way to solve the brass weight issue, and incorporates augmented reality into the weapon system. It won't be long until this happens, we're really at a turning point in tech development.

 

[JNieman]

After the last couple trials, it seems like we're going to be using an M16-based rifle until they bring in some 'frikkin lasers' and plasma rifles or something.

Unless they come into some situation or war that requires the use of a cartridge that won't fit into an M4 magwell or something.

 

[Hitman]

Considering all the Urban Combat these days,
I'm surprised they haven't developed a heavier round.

Same caliber, different dimensions.

Then, maybe only Mags would have to be made? or mag lips altered easily?
(Economy Boost) for someone....?

Anyone catching my drift?

 

[returningliberty]

Considering all the Urban Combat these days,
I'm surprised they haven't developed a heavier round.

Same caliber, different dimensions.

Then, maybe only Mags would have to be made? or mag lips altered easily?
(Economy Boost) for someone....?

Anyone catching my drift?

I'm not, unfortunately, you mean like a super long .22 round? Or a bigger caliber?

 

[SeventhSon]

After the last couple trials, it seems like we're going to be using an M16-based rifle until they bring in some 'frikkin lasers' and plasma rifles or something.

Unless they come into some situation or war that requires the use of a cartridge that won't fit into an M4 magwell or something.

Something in a 40-watt range.

 

[Hitman]

I'm not, unfortunately, you mean like a super long .22 round? Or a bigger caliber?

Not a larger caliber, that changes the rifle dynamics too much.

A new round. Longer bullet(heavier), less brass.

Similar to this.

Same Caliber, different dimensions.

Or the Top Two here;

Or this one.

From left to right:
7.62×54mmR, 7.62×39mm and 7.62×25mm Tokarev.

 

[Devilneck]

We need to go back to a time when we actually fought to win wars. Let's start by reissuing Garands, and Thompsons, and 1911's. Weapons designed to kill the enemy. Real weapons with soul. A heart forged from steel, and living wood. Something that not only kills the enemy from a long distance, but you can also mercilessly club them to death when you run out of ammo.



I have an Armalite M15 (M4). In the Corps I carried the A2 variant, and the SAW while supporting the 31st MEU. To me, updating the current platform makes good fiscal sense. I think a more powerful round would be better, but there is the weight trade off. 5.56 works well enough. Sure, it could be better. I think it would have to be a great deal better to warrant a complete changeover.

 

[returningliberty]

Ah I got ya now. There's already not a lot of powder in the 5.56. I load a bit over 25grs in my 75gr loads. I guess they could come up with something better but there wouldn't be much space left for powder. They'd have to set the bullet Way down there to fit them in the mag well.

 

[returningliberty]

I seriously think the army should wait. Caseless ammo might have been a disaster in the late 90's but if we make iPhones read fingerprints, we can make a good caseless round.

Maybe Apple will develop iAmmo.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Not a larger caliber, that changes the rifle dynamics too much.

A new round. Longer bullet(heavier), less brass.

Similar to this.

Same Caliber, different dimensions.

Or the Top Two here;

Or this one.

From left to right:
7.62×54mmR, 7.62×39mm and 7.62×25mm Tokarev.

Mk262. Poppin' Yodeler heads like Thai Rubbers since 2000.

 

[Hitman]

Mk262. Poppin' Yodeler heads like Thai Rubbers since 2000.

? Is that the Hollow-Tip Match Grade rounds? I can remember getting some of these in Afghanistan every now and then. The SAM-R guys had them but I didn't see them often. If that is what you are talking about. These came loose I think, little paper box with no stripper clip. Is that the one's?