How do I sight in my scope?? (Bolt action & AR's)

[Ritten]

Bore sighter? Grid mapping & computer algorithms? A $200 sled with 50lbs of steel shot? Go pay some overzealous gunsmith to do it for you? $50 worth of ammo (18 shots and 2 rounds for hunting with)?


Save your money. Over the past two months I have set the zero and sighted in half a dozen platforms for myself and family and have not taken longer than 15min. per gun or more than 5 shots. Here's what you need.

1. Go buy QUALITY rings and bases. If you skimp on this step it will cost you down the road. PERIOD. Quality doesn't necessarily mean expensive, but if you spent less on your mounts and rings than you do for a box of ammo then you are taking a big gamble with your wallet, your sanity, a clean kill, your time, and your credibility when you start complaining to the guy next to you at the range because your rifle shoots like crap and you don't know why. I'm not going to list them but there are companies who make very high quality stuff carried by plenty of local dealers.
2. Mount (or have mounted) the base, rings, and scope properly. That means level with the receiver and with the proper torque settings. "Hand tight" is not a proper torque setting and neither is "really tight". "That oughta do it" usually doesn't and please don't accept those answers from who ever you asked or paid to do it for you.
3. Now for the fun part. Grab an arm full of your wife's favorite towels and a back pack or pillow case. I prefer 600 thread count. A 5lbs bag of rice and an old pair of jeans comes in handy as well. Go to the mailbox and grab that handful of credit card offers, Victoria's secret catalogs, and gas bill (which isn't needed since you pay online anyway).
4. Head to the range with a handful of ammo, your rifle, eyes, ears, and a stapler or tape.
5. Grab a target backer and pull out one of the credit card offer mailings. Open up the paper and turn it over. Make a 1/2-1" dot in the middle of the paper and staple/tape it to the middle of the backer. Also staple/tape every other piece of paper you brought around it making sure you have a fairly large area that is covering all existing bullet holes. Go get some exercise and put that thing at 50yds.
6. Take all of the towels and roll them up into logs. Tie the end of one leg of your Girbauds into a knot and slide the whole back of rice down the inside. Spin the leg so it makes a denim covered bag. The towels you can stuff into the pack or stack them perpendicular to the rifle for a mount.
7. Once you have a hot range, pull the bolt out of the action and mount the gun or upper on top of the backpack filled with towels and put the rice under the butt. Wiggle it so the rifle sits upright on it's own fairly sturdy.
8. Now look down the bore and line up the rifle so that the dot on the paper, the circle made by the crown of the barrel, and the circle at the end of the chamber all line up in a perfect bullseye. This will take some effort to do and a bi-pod makes it very easy, but it's worth the time to set up. Take the time to allow your eye to focus on the different points and judge if you're really centered or not.
9. WITHOUT TOUCHING THE RIFLE, raise your head up to the scope and look to see if the crosshairs are on the dot. If not, adjust till they are, and repeat step #8. Continue steps 8 & 9 until everything is in line with the bore and the scope is right on the dot.
10. Put your bolt back in and take shot #1 at the 50yd dot. Observe where the shot went on the paper and adjust accordingly. If you have an moa scope then most likely 1 click is 1/8". If you have a mil radian scope then you're probably already smart enough to do this crap and are laughing by now.
11. Once you have made your adjustment, carefully take shot #2. If you have shot properly and are using good equipment then your shot should be close (within a couple of inches). Adjust as per step 10 again.
12. Now you can take shot #3. If shots #2 or #3 are wildly erratic then you have an issue with your shooting technique or your equipment and need to solve that first. (see step #1) Generally, shot #3 is touching or within the dot.
13. Next you will want to move your target back to the range which you plan to set your zero at, look up the calculated drop from 50yds for your cartridge choice, adjust, and fire shot #4. If you don't know the drop then just move the target to 100yds and fire at the center of the dot. The drop/rise should still be well on paper and you can adjust your scope from there.
14. Generally I will fire a 5th shot just to be extra double sure that everything is on.

Because of the time needed to move the target, this method works great with light hunting barrels allowing them to cool enough to not throw a flier due to heating. A few tips, do not start with a clean barrel. Shoot a few rounds into the berm before starting. Most rifles will shoot differently between a clean and dirty bore. If you're going to clean in between shots.....stay away from my rifles.....you're an idiot. DO not reuse the gas bill. You may get a visit from the FBI if you mail in a bill with bullet holes in it. (don't ask) A spotting scope can help to see bullet holes at 100yds, but if you can't see the dot at 50yds then it's time to get a better scope or turn in your rifle. Remember to put your scope caps back on the turrets. If not, you'll remember them at 4:30 in the morning when you pull the rifle out of it's case at the camp. Feel free to add anything I missed.

 

[spec50trout]

Can't stop laughing!

 

[Sugarbug]

Mickey suggested that method to me a few days ago. Works great.

 

[Log Island]

"Tie the end of one leg of your Girauds into a knot....". This made me bust a gut...
Dude, i still have a few pairs in the closet....can't fit in 'EM, but have them...
A 34" waist is so 80's...

 

[jgreco15]

Can I just buy one of those scopes that comes already zeroed in??? The guy at Academy told me the NC Star scope not only came zeroed for any rifle but also only needed 1 ring instead of 2 since it was the "tactical" version.

 

[Barney88PDC]

So if it took me 173 rounds to sight in a rifle you built is that bad?

 

[MTx11B]

Still have to go confirm zero most factory scopes are boresighted and that's just the ones that are already on rifle if you buy a scope by itself and someone says it is already zeroed then I would ask to what? As a side note a scope that is already zeroed is just a fancy way of saying it is factory set but you will still have to actually shoot to confirm zero and make adjustments

Can I just buy one of those scopes that comes already zeroed in??? The guy at Academy told me the NC Star scope not only came zeroed for any rifle but also only needed 1 ring instead of 2 since it was the "tactical" version.

 

[Ritten]

Still have to go confirm zero most factory scopes are boresighted and that's just the ones that are already on rifle if you buy a scope by itself and someone says it is already zeroed then I would ask to what? As a side note a scope that is already zeroed is just a fancy way of saying it is factory set but you will still have to actually shoot to confirm zero and make adjustments

Awesome...

 

[Ritten]

So if it took me 173 rounds to sight in a rifle you built is that bad?

Very bad! Especially considering that after those 173 rounds you STILL weren't hitting the bullseye with three shot groups! The scope's probably defective. Please allow me to trade a nice, high end BSA for it and I'll use it for educational purposes.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Akajun]

This is one of the best stories, and the gods honest truth, of the proper way to sight in a rifle. This is by Gus Fisher, a former usmc National Match Armorer from the 70's and can be found on the M14 forum.

As mentioned before, I was a very young Marine Sergeant when I came up to THE Marine Corps Rifle Team the first time as the junior Armorer.

I didn't grow up using high power rifles. We used shotguns to hunt quail, rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, ducks and geese. I used a Mark I Ruger Target .22 pistol for racoon hunting and used a Model 74 Winchester .22 to really learn the basics of rifle marksmanship. My introduction to both high power shooting and long range shooting was in Marine Corps Boot Camp. On Qual Day in Boot Camp, I ran 7 consecutive bullseye's from the offhand position at 200 yards. The 8th round was a pinwheel bullseye, but it was on the target next to mine, so I got a maggie's drawers. Knee High wind got me after that and I fell apart and only shot Sharpshooter in boot camp.

I bought a sporterized Mauser in .308 with a scope on it from a fellow Marine during the time I was going through the Armorer's OJT program on Camp Pendleton. I used that for ground squirrel hunting, but was never really satisfied with my zero on the rifle. So after I came up on "The Big Team," I asked the second senior Armorer - Ted Hollabaugh, if he could show me how to REALLY sight in a rifle with a scope. He said sure and he would do it, but since we had all the talent in the world at MTU, why didn't I ask one of the shooters? Well, I was a young kid and I didn't know any of the shooters that well - most of them were much older than I. That's when he suggested I ask Carlos Hathcock for some help. I didn't know Carlos then and did not know of his exploits in NM and Sniper shooting. Ted talked to Carlos about it and Carlos stopped by the shop later that afternoon.

Carlos looked at me and said, "So you want to sight in your rifle, eh? OK, thoroughly clean the bore and chamber. Dry the bore out with patches just before you come down to Range 4 tomorrow at noon on the 200 yard line. Have the sling on the rifle that you are going to use in hunting." Then he went on about his business.

When I got to Range 4 the next day, he had a target in the air ready for me. He told me to get down in the best prone position I had. He checked me and adjusted my position just a bit. Then he said, "Before you shoot. The MOST important thing I want you to do is take your time and make it the best shot possible. It doesn't matter how long you take, just make it a good shot. ALSO, and this is as important, make sure you give me an accurate call on where you think the bullet hit the target." After I broke the shot, I told him where I thought the bullet had hit. He checked it by using a spotting scope when the target came back up. He grinned just slightly and said, "not a bad call." He then took a screwdriver and adjusted my scope a bit. He had me record everything possible about the shot and weather, humidity, temperature, wind, how I felt when the shot went off, what kind of ammo I was using, the date, and virtually everything about the conditions on the range that day. I had never seen such a complete and precise recording of such things in a log book. He told me that if a fly had gone by the rifle and farted while I was shooting, to make sure I recorded that. Then he told me to thoroughly clean the bore and chamber, and have it dry when I came back at 12 noon the next day. I was kind of surprised he only had me shoot once, but when you are getting free lessons - you don't question or argue.

The next day, he told me the same thing. I called the shot and it was closer to the center of the bullseye. He made another slight adjustment and told me to clean the bore and chamber, dry the bore thoroughly and come back the next day at noon. Then we recorded everything possible about that day. The following day, the shot was darn near exactly centered on the bullseye. Then he told me to clean and dry the bore before coming back the next day. Then we recorded everything about that day.

About a week into the process, Ted asked me how it was going. I said it was going really well, but we were only shooting one shot a day. Ted grinned and said, "How many shots do you think you are going to get at a deer? Don't you think you had better make the first one count?" There was a level of knowledge and wisdom there that I immediately appreciated, though I came to appreciate it even more as time went on.

We continued this process with the sitting position at 200 yards, then prone and sitting at 300 yards and 400 yards. Then we went down to 100 yards and included offhand in the mix. Each day and each shot we recorded everything possible in the book and that included the sight settings for each positon at each yard line. We also marked the scope adjustment settings with different color nail polish for each yard line.

When that was over after a few weeks, I thought I had a super good zero on the rifle. But no, not according to Carlos. He started calling me up on mornings it was foggy, rainy, windy, high or low humidity, etc., etc. and we fired a single shot and recorded the sight settings and everything else about the day. (I actually used four or five log books by the time we were through and put that info all into one ring binder.) I almost had an encyclopedia on that rifle. Grin.

Well, after a few months, we had shot a single round in most every kind of condition there was. Then about the 12th of December, it was REALLY cold and it seemed like an artic wind was blowing, there was about four inches of snow on the ground and freezing rain was falling. He called me up and told me to meet him at Range 4 at noon. I had gotten to know him well enough to joke, "Do you really want to watch me shoot in this kind of weather? He chuckled and said, "Well, are you ever going to hunt in this kind of weather?" I sighed and said, "See you at noon."

By the next spring, I had records for sight settings for the first shot out of a "cold" barrel for almost any weather, position and range I would use and temperature/wind/humidity condition imagineable. He had informed me months before that was bascially how he wanted all Marine Snipers to sight in their rifles as only the first shot counts, though of course they would do it out to 700 yards on a walking target and further on a stationary target. They also practiced follow up shots, of course and we did some of that as well. It gave me great confidence that I could dial in my scope for anything I would come across.

Some years later in the late 90's or realy early this century, I was talking to a Police Sniper and he was really impressed I knew Carlos. I told him about the way Carlos had me sight in my rifle and suggested he do the same thing as he was a sniper for the Henrico Country SWAT team. He had never heard of that and took it to heart. About two and a half years later, he got called to a domestic situation where a husband had a handgun to his wife's head and was going to kill her. After the Sergeant in charge and the Pysch guy determined the husband was really going to do it, the Police Officer was asked if he could hit the guy at just over 200 yards and not hit the wife. He said he knew he could (because he had followed Carlo's method), so they told him to take the shot. One shot and the perp's head exploded. The wife was scared crapless, but unharmed. When he told me about it about when I saw him the first time a week after the incident, the first thing I asked him if he was OK about taking the shot. He understood I was talking about the pyschological aspects and he really appreciated it. He said, it had bothered him a little that night until he remembered that if he had not taken the shot, the wife would have died. I checked back with him and he really was OK with having taken the shot. I've checked back every gun show I see him at and I know he is doing fine about it.

 

[jgreco15]

Awesome...

 

[bravo3]

This is one of the best stories, and the gods honest truth, of the proper way to sight in a rifle. This is by Gus Fisher, a former usmc National Match Armorer from the 70's and can be found on the M14 forum.

As mentioned before, I was a very young Marine Sergeant when I came up to THE Marine Corps Rifle Team the first time as the junior Armorer.

I didn't grow up using high power rifles. We used shotguns to hunt quail, rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, ducks and geese. I used a Mark I Ruger Target .22 pistol for racoon hunting and used a Model 74 Winchester .22 to really learn the basics of rifle marksmanship. My introduction to both high power shooting and long range shooting was in Marine Corps Boot Camp. On Qual Day in Boot Camp, I ran 7 consecutive bullseye's from the offhand position at 200 yards. The 8th round was a pinwheel bullseye, but it was on the target next to mine, so I got a maggie's drawers. Knee High wind got me after that and I fell apart and only shot Sharpshooter in boot camp.

I bought a sporterized Mauser in .308 with a scope on it from a fellow Marine during the time I was going through the Armorer's OJT program on Camp Pendleton. I used that for ground squirrel hunting, but was never really satisfied with my zero on the rifle. So after I came up on "The Big Team," I asked the second senior Armorer - Ted Hollabaugh, if he could show me how to REALLY sight in a rifle with a scope. He said sure and he would do it, but since we had all the talent in the world at MTU, why didn't I ask one of the shooters? Well, I was a young kid and I didn't know any of the shooters that well - most of them were much older than I. That's when he suggested I ask Carlos Hathcock for some help. I didn't know Carlos then and did not know of his exploits in NM and Sniper shooting. Ted talked to Carlos about it and Carlos stopped by the shop later that afternoon.

Carlos looked at me and said, "So you want to sight in your rifle, eh? OK, thoroughly clean the bore and chamber. Dry the bore out with patches just before you come down to Range 4 tomorrow at noon on the 200 yard line. Have the sling on the rifle that you are going to use in hunting." Then he went on about his business.

When I got to Range 4 the next day, he had a target in the air ready for me. He told me to get down in the best prone position I had. He checked me and adjusted my position just a bit. Then he said, "Before you shoot. The MOST important thing I want you to do is take your time and make it the best shot possible. It doesn't matter how long you take, just make it a good shot. ALSO, and this is as important, make sure you give me an accurate call on where you think the bullet hit the target." After I broke the shot, I told him where I thought the bullet had hit. He checked it by using a spotting scope when the target came back up. He grinned just slightly and said, "not a bad call." He then took a screwdriver and adjusted my scope a bit. He had me record everything possible about the shot and weather, humidity, temperature, wind, how I felt when the shot went off, what kind of ammo I was using, the date, and virtually everything about the conditions on the range that day. I had never seen such a complete and precise recording of such things in a log book. He told me that if a fly had gone by the rifle and farted while I was shooting, to make sure I recorded that. Then he told me to thoroughly clean the bore and chamber, and have it dry when I came back at 12 noon the next day. I was kind of surprised he only had me shoot once, but when you are getting free lessons - you don't question or argue.

The next day, he told me the same thing. I called the shot and it was closer to the center of the bullseye. He made another slight adjustment and told me to clean the bore and chamber, dry the bore thoroughly and come back the next day at noon. Then we recorded everything possible about that day. The following day, the shot was darn near exactly centered on the bullseye. Then he told me to clean and dry the bore before coming back the next day. Then we recorded everything about that day.

About a week into the process, Ted asked me how it was going. I said it was going really well, but we were only shooting one shot a day. Ted grinned and said, "How many shots do you think you are going to get at a deer? Don't you think you had better make the first one count?" There was a level of knowledge and wisdom there that I immediately appreciated, though I came to appreciate it even more as time went on.

We continued this process with the sitting position at 200 yards, then prone and sitting at 300 yards and 400 yards. Then we went down to 100 yards and included offhand in the mix. Each day and each shot we recorded everything possible in the book and that included the sight settings for each positon at each yard line. We also marked the scope adjustment settings with different color nail polish for each yard line.

When that was over after a few weeks, I thought I had a super good zero on the rifle. But no, not according to Carlos. He started calling me up on mornings it was foggy, rainy, windy, high or low humidity, etc., etc. and we fired a single shot and recorded the sight settings and everything else about the day. (I actually used four or five log books by the time we were through and put that info all into one ring binder.) I almost had an encyclopedia on that rifle. Grin.

Well, after a few months, we had shot a single round in most every kind of condition there was. Then about the 12th of December, it was REALLY cold and it seemed like an artic wind was blowing, there was about four inches of snow on the ground and freezing rain was falling. He called me up and told me to meet him at Range 4 at noon. I had gotten to know him well enough to joke, "Do you really want to watch me shoot in this kind of weather? He chuckled and said, "Well, are you ever going to hunt in this kind of weather?" I sighed and said, "See you at noon."

By the next spring, I had records for sight settings for the first shot out of a "cold" barrel for almost any weather, position and range I would use and temperature/wind/humidity condition imagineable. He had informed me months before that was bascially how he wanted all Marine Snipers to sight in their rifles as only the first shot counts, though of course they would do it out to 700 yards on a walking target and further on a stationary target. They also practiced follow up shots, of course and we did some of that as well. It gave me great confidence that I could dial in my scope for anything I would come across.

Some years later in the late 90's or realy early this century, I was talking to a Police Sniper and he was really impressed I knew Carlos. I told him about the way Carlos had me sight in my rifle and suggested he do the same thing as he was a sniper for the Henrico Country SWAT team. He had never heard of that and took it to heart. About two and a half years later, he got called to a domestic situation where a husband had a handgun to his wife's head and was going to kill her. After the Sergeant in charge and the Pysch guy determined the husband was really going to do it, the Police Officer was asked if he could hit the guy at just over 200 yards and not hit the wife. He said he knew he could (because he had followed Carlo's method), so they told him to take the shot. One shot and the perp's head exploded. The wife was scared crapless, but unharmed. When he told me about it about when I saw him the first time a week after the incident, the first thing I asked him if he was OK about taking the shot. He understood I was talking about the pyschological aspects and he really appreciated it. He said, it had bothered him a little that night until he remembered that if he had not taken the shot, the wife would have died. I checked back with him and he really was OK with having taken the shot. I've checked back every gun show I see him at and I know he is doing fine about it.

That was a good read, appreciate that man.

 

[GeorgeS3]

How come everybody misses the dot or the dime????
laffin....