legit self defense or murder?

[diat150]

http://thecabin.net/news/local/2010-07-19/waller-charged-first-degree-murder-aggravated-assault

videos in the link.

basically the shooter has an affair with the victims baby momma. victim finds out then sees shooter and chases him around town. shooter pulls up in police station parking lot and victim gets out and charges shooter. shooter shoots victim then turns himself in.

 

[Bearco]

It looks like self-defense on the surface, but there are not enough details. All you see in the video is the end result. What led up to it?

 

[sraiford]

Just looking at the video, I'd say selfdefense. He could have done what ever at the original site of where the two met. But after he "fled" and went to the Police station, it was obvious that the guy in the SUV was an aggressor. The shooter didn't even put his car in park, it rolled after during the shooting. After the shooting he ran into the police station and visually appeared distressed. A half ass attorney, I feel, could get him off.

 

[CloudStrife]

I'd call it self defense based on what we know. He fled to a police station. Seems like he was looking for protection to me. If had wanted to, he could have shot the guy at his house.

 

[lsu fan]

The "victim" should have just waited for the shooter to show up at his house.... then he could have been the one in the self defense situation....







I'm joking of course.

 

[honestlou]

I think that Arkansas has a "duty to retreat" doctrine, and this may be problematic for the shooter. He may very well win the case at trial, but this could explain the murder charge under circumstances that seem strange to us. If this had happened in Louisiana, I'd be very upset to see him charged.

 

[jimdana1942]

Self defense with maybe a littering charge for something or another.

 

[Hitman]

You don’t pull over in a Road Rage incident unless you’re willing to fight. What did he think? him and the guy that has been tail gating him, yelling and screaming obscenities at him, was just going to get out and talk it over like men?

Should have never got out the car.
Should have drove to the Police Station and just sat in the parking lot with doors locked or at least called them.
(I was rear-ended in Lake Charles and the driver drove off. I followed them keeping some distance and called 911. Within about 2 minutes, two cops come flying up from behind me and pulled the guy over. You'd be surprised how quick they can get there most times)

Looks like he had a gun, and planned on using it as soon as he stopped. Which is what he did.

Road Rage incident occurred,
He pulls over,
Gets out car with weapon drawn,
Fires weapon with intent of killing or inflicting Serious Bodily Harm.

Where was the self-defense?

Oh I know WE can see it, maybe, possibly..but a Jury of his peers?

I carry a gun, and I've been in a sticky Road Rage incident. If you pull over you’re inviting a fight. What else would you possibly think is going to happen?

This guy KNEW what was going to happen when he pulled over, HENCE the reason he got out his car with WEAPON DRAWN. If he KNEW the danger about to happen, then he KNEW what he was going to do also. Therefore making a case for Premeditated Murder.

Sticky situation indeed, but he'll go down for something.

1st Degree? I couldn’t vote for it, 2nd degree probably so.

 

[SeventhSon]

Anyone else notice the poor women that got into her white car?

 

[MyTFAL]

Hell man the victims Fiance' used to bang uglies with the shooter, there's a lot more going on here than just "Road rage"

 

[Knave]

On the "duty to retreat" note...

He's already driven to a police station parking lot. That's about as far as any average person can "retreat" if you ask me..

He attempts to get out of his car, obviously very hastily and, probably, with the intention of retreating from his aggressor by running inside for help.

Before he is able to do that, his aggressor traps him between their vehicles and, in an apparent fury, charges the shooter.

The shooter, now trapped and having attempted to retreat, uses deadly force to protect himself.

 

[Hitman]

On the "duty to retreat" note...

He's already driven to a police station parking lot. That's about as far as any average person can "retreat" if you ask me..

He attempts to get out of his car, obviously very hastily and, probably, with the intention of retreating from his aggressor by running inside for help.

Before he is able to do that, his aggressor traps him between their vehicles and, in an apparent fury, charges the shooter.

The shooter, now trapped and having attempted to retreat, uses deadly force to protect himself.

(Playing Devils Advocate here)

But he exited the safety of the vehicle with his weapon drawn. (intent)

 

[Suburbazine]

(Playing Devils Advocate here)

But he exited the safety of the vehicle with his weapon drawn. (intent)

That vehicle wasn't safe. It appeared to me that the SUV intended to ram him.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

On the "duty to retreat" note...

He's already driven to a police station parking lot. That's about as far as any average person can "retreat" if you ask me..

He attempts to get out of his car, obviously very hastily and, probably, with the intention of retreating from his aggressor by running inside for help.

Before he is able to do that, his aggressor traps him between their vehicles and, in an apparent fury, charges the shooter.

The shooter, now trapped and having attempted to retreat, uses deadly force to protect himself.

leaning more this way.

 

[Speedlace]

Arkansas code 5-2-607 (b)says that "A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using that force with complete safety"

He might not have able to leave that situation with "complete safety".

5-2-606. Use of physical force in defense of a person.
(a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force that he reasonably believes to be necessary. However, he may not use deadly physical force except as provided in § 5-2-607.
(b) A person is not justified in using physical force upon another person if:
(1) With purpose to cause physical injury or death to the other person, he provokes the use of unlawful physical force by the other person; or
(2) He is the initial aggressor; but his use of physical force upon another person is justifiable if he in good faith withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his purpose to do so, and the latter continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful physical force; or
(3) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not authorized by law.

5-2-607. Use of deadly physical force in defense of a person.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if he reasonably believes that the other person is:
(1) Committing or about to commit a felony involving force or violence;
(2) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force; or
(3) Imminently endangering his or her life or imminently about to victimize the person as described in § 9-15-103(a)(2), from the continuation of a pattern of domestic abuse. For the purposes of this section "domestic abuse" shall be that described in § 9-15-103(a).
(b) A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using that force with complete safety:
(1) By retreating, except that a person is not required to retreat if he is in his dwelling and was not the original aggressor, or if he is a law enforcement officer or a person assisting at the direction of a law enforcement officer; or
(2) By surrendering possession of property to a person claiming a lawful right thereto.

http://www.peaceathomeshelter.org/DV/title_5_criminal_offenses.html

 

[Nolacopusmc]

5-2-607 (b)says that "A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using that force with complete safety"

He might not have able to leave that situation with "complete safety".

http://www.peaceathomeshelter.org/DV/title_5_criminal_offenses.html

Where is that law from and what state is it referring to?

 

[Speedlace]

Where is that law from and what state is it referring to?

Arkansas.

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/bureau/Publications/Arkansas Code/Title 5.pdf

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Arkansas.

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/bureau/Publications/Arkansas Code/Title 5.pdf

Sweet. Thanks.

 

[Leadslugga]

Anyone else notice the poor women that got into her white car?

That's what I was thinking the whole time. I saw this lady get into her car and then I was waiting for a shooting to happen and the lady wasn't leaving. I was worried about her...

I mean, she was right there. Perhaps she could be really helpful as a witness. I'm glad she wasn't hurt, though. She was more or less in the field of fire. If the attacker had gotten hands on the shooter before falling, he could have started a struggle for the gun and bullets could have ended up in the bystander's head.

Lucky that didn't happen.

 

[oleheat]

I'd like to hear more details- but I believe I would have dialed 911 as I was driving to the police station, and let them in on what was happening. He should have stayed in his vehicle.

He's probably going to prison.


Then again- people who live risky lives many times end up like this.....