LMT MRP CQB (that's a lot of letters!) piston rifle pics:

[LAPatriot]

I agree, here. I think it would have been taken with a grain of salt (or sand? ) though, since we would all expect the AK to perform better with half a sand dune in the action anyways, but on the other hand, no one would expect that same AK to post anything better than 3 or 4 MOA, anyways. It's all about priorities, though. If I was a 12 year old Afghani, I'd probably take minute-of-man accuracy for a rifle that I'll never have to fix or clean, and that cost me only 1 goat.

Yeah, the AK is not a very accurate weapon and it's effectiveness is very limited outside of full auto fire. On the other hand the Galil is a fairly reasonable substitute given its better accuracy, but its weight is definitely a negative. If I was stationery and did not have to pack it very far I would feel better than just well armed with a Galil. The one I have will consistently shoot 2-3 inch groups at about 75 yards (that's the length of the range at my home) with an aimpoint. I'll let you know what I think about the LMT when I receive it next week.

 

[LAPatriot]

Sorry... I figured you for a relative newbie who was reading too much BARF.com propaganda. My mistake...

Ya know, Obey touched on one aspect that I've been told is significant... a piston gun is much easier to clean, they say. Given that cleaning a "standard" AR is right up there at the top of my list of Things I'd Rather Not Do (doing it RIGHT is tedious and time-consuming), anything that makes the job less of a PITA is good.

Still... while I would take an HK 416 without reservation, these "aftermarket" piston guns haven't been proven yet AFAIK...

.

No offence taken. The piston guns are supposed to be cleaner running and much easier to clean. As you say, I hope so anyway because I dislike cleaning my ARs as well.

 

[LAPatriot]

When you see a piston rifle thread, you see the arfcom fanboys who say it's the next best thing to quilted toilet paper. I know how annoying that can be! On the other hand, when I see a piston rifle thread, I wait for the arfcom diehard 'old guys' who say 'unnecessary!! Nothing wrong with DI!'

I guess I'm a little of both......I'm an old guy and I'm always interested in some better toilet paper.

 

[Obey]

An addition:

There's a neat thread on AR15.com right now about a guy who ran 2k rounds through his HK416, suppressed, without having to lube, clean, etc. in a Magpul Dynamics class. If this LMT could accomplish the same feat, I'd be quite impressed.

"the HK gun ran, the whole time. It was pretty amazing to have the gun clean and lubed at the start, then run the gun 2000 rounds in 2 days, probably 1850 worth with the silencer, all without touching it. Im not a huge piston fan boy, but I think they do have some advantages. The fact is, without keeping the bolt carrier group of a DI gun relatively wet, there is no way the DI gun could have done this. A silencer will burn off the lube you do put on a DI gun quicker than you think. So you really do have to keep on it. Keep it wet, sure, it can be done, I have done it and it was done in the class. A lot of people were running cans for the whole class. The fact that the HK ran the whole time without lube is something to make note of.

Granted, crud built up and locked the lower up, but one, that has nothing to do with the upper, and two, I have seen the same thing happen to another silenced DI gun at about the same round count.

If I'm not miustaken, the debris is coming back through the barrel, just like it does on a DI gun."

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=446047

 

[LAPatriot]

Good link, thanks. I'm not familar with cans, but it does sound like a real torture test. I've heard that cans do cause excessive build up of crud and the gas piston helps in this respect. I also heard that the guys in Iraq keep their M4s well lubed to combat the sand and grit. Just by virtue of the bolt and carrier on the piston type not getting so hot must be a real plus in the cleaning area. I guess my question is what would be the result if no can had been used?

 

[Obey]

Good link, thanks. I'm not familar with cans, but it does sound like a real torture test. I've heard that cans do cause excessive build up of crud and the gas piston helps in this respect. I also heard that the guys in Iraq keep their M4s well lubed to combat the sand and grit. Just by virtue of the bolt and carrier on the piston type not getting so hot must be a real plus in the cleaning area. I guess my question is what would be the result if no can had been used?

A lot less grime. Suppressors cause a huge, huge difference in the amount of crud that builds up in the action. the increased backpressure blows carbon and powder back through the barrel. I have an MP5 that I put an AAC Evo-9 TRIAD on:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72XsWGN2Oqc[/ame]


When I have finished shooting 200 rounds suppressed, and I am not kidding, it looks nearly the same as firing 800-1000 consecutive rounds unsuppressed. Perhaps the MP5 buildup is simply more apparent since the silencer causes blowback straight into the bolt face area, and the bolt face on my MP5 is a satin stainless, but in any case, the buildup increases greatly.

Someone raised a good point in that thread. The gentleman with the 416 noted that the only failure he had was caused by the accumulation of crud in his action actually solidifying into chunks, and one of said chunks got into his lower and interfered with the trigger. In response, someone said that if he had perhaps not lubricated his piston rifle at all (even to begin with), the carbon buildup might have been less severe. I thought it was an interesting concept.