Long Range AR Advice

[XD45ACP]

I have a buddy who wants to build a .233 rifle for long range target work. He's looking at something along the lines of a stainless 20" or 24" bull barrel. He hand loads and plans to use 65 grain bullets. Which twist would he want to use?

Thanks!

 

[Crippler7815]

1:7 will turn the heavier rounds far more accurately, if it's a 5.56 barrel.

I would personally look into a .223 Wylde (1:8). Allows for 5.56 as well as .223 Remington, and improves accuracy slightly on the 5.56 because of the way it's throated.

 

[oppsImissed]

I asked 3 people about this months ago. I did days of reading about it. 223 Wylde is the way to go.

 

[Ellis1958]

Take a clue from the High Power shooters who do 600yd ... prone ... with iron sights ... and a leather sling.

Assuming .223 (you said .233 in your original post). 20" bull barrel in 1:7 or 1:8 twist. Wylde chamber. Don't cheap out here.

77gr bullets loaded to mag length. 80gr bullets .005" to .015" off the lands single loaded.

Spend the money on a top shelf trigger. Geissele or Timney.

 

[3fifty7]

A cousin of mine and myself both have Bushmaster Predator with heavy, fluted, free floated 20" barrels with .223 Wylde chambers. This is a very accurate setup shooting factory ammo. I'm expecting a sizeable order of steel targets in soon and gonna start stretching out its legs.

 

[Barney88PDC]

There is no such thing as long range and AR-15 / .223. Optimally get a bolt rifle. If not get an AR-10 based .260Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[3fifty7]

One mans long range is another mans chip shot.

 

[Ritten]

One mans long range is another mans chip shot.

True, but the NRA quantifies "long range" at 800+ yards. Not really a range that the .223 is designed for, especially not with 65gr bullets, and even for an accomplished precision rifle shooter it certainly is not a "chip shot" with that equipment. Can it do it, sure, but with a different set up and bullet selection.

To the OP, if you are using that equipment with that bullet then go with any twist 1:9 or tighter. You should be good out to +-400yds before the wind tears up any semblance of consistent flight path.

 

[jcomar1]

OP what distance does he have in mind to shoot as long range?

 

[XD45ACP]

There is no such thing as long range and AR-15 / .223. Optimally get a bolt rifle. If not get an AR-10 based .260Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor.

This was my advice too, but he's an old guy and doesn't want to get into a new caliber. I also asked him how far he was planning to shoot, and he just replied "As far as I can push that little bullet."

The 20" would be better than the 24" barrel?

 

[Ritten]

The 20" would be better than the 24" barrel?

It sounds like it really wouldn't matter. He's limiting himself with bullet selection, not barrel length.

 

[Harrisracing]

It sounds like it really wouldn't matter. He's limiting himself with bullet selection, not barrel length.

Agreed. If dead set on AR-15 platform I would highly recommend 6.5 Grendel. Get the checkbook out for a real barrel and bolt but plenty of bullet choices. Otherwise as stated 6.5 Creedmoor.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Blackhawk]

Since he's fixed on .223, one option might to build the equivalent of a Space Gun upper, with 24" barrel and with a globe sight at the muzzle end and micro-adjustable sights at the rear. Not necessarily the best option, but certainly something to play with and will get some second looks at the range. If he sticks to the 65 grain bullet he could stay with a 1:9 twist, but if he really wants to explore longer ranges he might want to go with a 1:7 and use 69, 75, 77, or 80 grain. Too many variables to tell which would work best for him.

http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/tubb2k.htm

http://www.compasslake.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=24

http://www.medeshafirearms.com/articles.htm

 

[mickey]

I would highly recommend 6.5 Grendel.

I wouldn't.


My suggestion......
Order a White Oak match or varmint upper (24" or 26" barrel) and some 77gr bullets.

 

[Bam Bam]

I wouldn't.


My suggestion......
Order a White Oak match or varmint upper (24" or 26" barrel) and some 77gr bullets.

I agree with Mickey!

 

[Akajun]

There is no such thing as long range and AR-15 / .223. Optimally get a bolt rifle. If not get an AR-10 based .260Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor.

Uhh, wanna bet ,
And yes stay away from the Grendel. , the only target cartridges I'd use in a standard ar for target work besides 223 are the 240 tomahawk and 6 Hagar , and I'd strongly favor the Hagar
Carl bernosky won the NRA championship with one two years ago and tied Brandon green and his 260 bolt gun last year only to be out x'd.
No need to spend a but load of money either, my match rifle is just a standard. Rra varminter that I slotted the hand guard to take anzchutz accessories and fitted with a set of sights and skeleton buttstock. It shoots better than I do, I even cleaned 600 yd stage once with it 200-11x.
For anything past 300 ditch the 69's in favor of 75's 77's 80's or 82's.

 

[HiCapMag]

I agree with Mickey!

I agree with Bam Bam agreeing with Mickey.

It has been awhile since I ran the numbers, but if inside 500 the 69 and 77 grain issue is about a wash...velocity is better for one, and BC is better for the other. 1-8 is fine for the 69... After 500 (or so) the 77's or heavier rule, and you want a 1-7 twist barrel as long as you can get it.

So, how far does he want to go? If as far as he can, bet the 24 inch barrel (or longer) in 1-7. You can always single load and go with really big bullets, but then why have a semi-auto?

Good luck!

 

[Akajun]

I agree with Bam Bam agreeing with Mickey.

It has been awhile since I ran the numbers, but if inside 500 the 69 and 77 grain issue is about a wash...velocity is better for one, and BC is better for the other. 1-8 is fine for the 69... After 500 (or so) the 77's or heavier rule, and you want a 1-7 twist barrel as long as you can get it.

So, how far does he want to go? If as far as he can, bet the 24 inch barrel (or longer) in 1-7. You can always single load and go with really big bullets, but then why have a semi-auto?

Good luck!

The numbers are wrong. , the 77's buck the wind better than the 69's at 300 by about 1/2 to 3/4 of a minute .
You should try to get a 1/7 twist, but a 1-8 will do fine up to a 82 gr Berger. Also you can load 77's to mag length and shoot 600, the amu does. Also many shooters are loading the 82 Berger mag length with 8208 powder and getting good results. , they are very jump tolerant.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Uhh, wanna bet ,
And yes stay away from the Grendel. , the only target cartridges I'd use in a standard ar for target work besides 223 are the 240 tomahawk and 6 Hagar , and I'd strongly favor the Hagar
Carl bernosky won the NRA championship with one two years ago and tied Brandon green and his 260 bolt gun last year only to be out x'd.
No need to spend a but load of money either, my match rifle is just a standard. Rra varminter that I slotted the hand guard to take anzchutz accessories and fitted with a set of sights and skeleton buttstock. It shoots better than I do, I even cleaned 600 yd stage once with it 200-11x.
For anything past 300 ditch the 69's in favor of 75's 77's 80's or 82's.

Sure lets go shoot NRA long range 800+, you bring an AR in .223/5.56 like I stated and ill bring either my .260 or 6mm Creedmoor bolt gun, you tell me which one to bring.

 

[Akajun]

Sure lets go shoot NRA long range 800+, you bring an AR in .223/5.56 like I stated and ill bring either my .260 or 6mm Creedmoor bolt gun, you tell me which one to bring.

Sure thing, but lets ditch the bipods and scopes and shoot with slings and iron sights.
People shoot 1000yd with ar15a2 NM guns in competition, the only limitation is wind reading and making sure you have enough velocity to keep it supersonic, the guns and ammo are plenty accurate. Use a match rifle upper with a 24" barrel and the velocity is no longer an issue.
Besides, long range to 99% of the world is anything past 300yds, only F class and Highpower competitiors think of long range as over 600yds. This guy is obviously not a competitior and will be just fine with an ar15 as long as he uses a 1-7/1-8 twist barrel.