LPK preference?

[kcinnick]

It's a just a communications faux pas. Marketing flaw. You made a claim that you can't back up. I believe you in what you say about the specifics of the arrangement. I don't think you had /any/ ill intent here and don't think any worse of you or your parts. I think you probably just learned something about advertising/marketing/communication though, in that you can't (easily) make a claim without substance.

If you had just said you were putting together Ferrara Firearms LPKs and wanted to know what people wanted to see in it, it probably would have gone much smoother. You started talking about other companies' practices and products, probably without thinking about whether you'd have to explain that or not. But you tried to build your product by saying you didn't want to make the mistakes others do. You left questions that you couldn't answer and it just makes you look bad even when you're not doing anything bad. Appearances... that's all.

One thing I've learned is to never say one word beyond what is concrete. Don't compare myself to others. <This> is what I do, and <this> is why it's good, and <here> is what it will cost. If you aren't happy with that price point, I can offer <this> product which still performs in <this capacity> but lacks <feature> which reduces the price.

All of the above are things that don't leave questions. They don't bring <other products/companies> into the mix which put me on the spot to talk about other companies, which, if it's anything other than respect or flattery, will make me look petty and slanderous. But if you only praise other companies, how can you say your stuff is better than anyone's? You can't. It's a no win. So I don't bring up other companies. There are concrete factual claims such as lead times that are neutral statements. "They're great stuff, but right now their lead time is about 8 months. If you want something now I can make that happen, if you don't want to wait the 8 mos for <company>" - it doesn't speak to their quality or performance, only stating a logistics fact.

I think you're getting nailed here kind of hard for what it is, honestly, and I hope people see that.

I mean, it's not like you're doing a Mark LaRue, here.

Exactly what I am doing, having some parts branded, some of it OEM sourced is going to save money. I could have just bought the ALG defense kit with a branded LPK but didn't want to use that brands LPK's based on their reputation on the FFL boards. I found kits with good reviews both by customers and dealers, and got some quotes. One of the distributors said I can't put that together for you, but these guys can, here is their info. It just happens that the place I ended up using is the same company that makes the kits for some very well known companies that are the same ones I was considering buying at the wholesale level.

The only claims I made was that some manufactures don't care where the parts come from and that some parts on the market are out of spec/backwards engineered and I wanted to avoid that. In the end, I feel my customers will be happy with the quality and price of the kits, especially with the Ferrara Firearms lowers and couple of other lower projects I have in the works with branded with other organizations logo's.

 

[Jack]

Nick you've got to look at this from the other side of the equation. The company I'm ASSUMING you're referring to is PSA. They make the same claim of us made milspec parts. Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[kcinnick]

Nick you've got to look at this from the other side of the equation. The company I'm ASSUMING you're referring to is PSA. They make the same claim of us made milspec parts. Do you see what I'm getting at?

I can assure you I am not using PSA lower parts kits! PSA has a web presence and sells directly to the public. The place I am using is just a parts supplier to 07's. It is their only business, they don't have a retail or even wholesale side, it is all OEM.

I had a friend read the thread, after explaining to him the procurement process he understood, but before he didn't understand either. It is no different that what White Oak is doing by bundling a Mil Spec LPK with an ALG defense trigger. I am doing the same exact thing, I didn't even realize they did it until it was mentioned in another thread. I think people will be pleased with the quality and pricing. I should have kits coming next week, and spare parts.

 

[Jack]

Other way around, I was assuming the company you're comparing yourself to is PSA. The point I was making is that they've made similar claims to quality, us made mil spec, but they offer a product that isn't on par with other companies. Since you've compared yourself to other companies(I'm assuming PSA), how can you quantify a difference between your us made mil spec parts and anyone else's?

 

[MOTOR51]

If everyone is so concerned with the products build quality why don't y'all buy some and compare it to colt etc.. Y'all are treating this guy like he is making you buy from him. Kcinnick, are you a paying sponsor?


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[kcinnick]

Other way around, I was assuming the company you're comparing yourself to is PSA. The point I was making is that they've made similar claims to quality, us made mil spec, but they offer a product that isn't on par with other companies. Since you've compared yourself to other companies(I'm assuming PSA), how can you quantify a difference between your us made mil spec parts and anyone else's?

PSA is slick with their words. They claim their parts are "assembled in South Carolina" I don't see Mil-spec or made in the USA on much of their stuff. I personally won't carry PSA.

I actually had a customer come in with take down pins machined incorrectly from PSA that wouldn't fit their lower, one of the reasons I am putting together a Spare parts rack, that isn't a money maker selling a part one at a time, it is a service for the customer.

All I can say is that these parts are guaranteed to be US made, most are made in the facility where they are being purchased from. They are Mil-Spec and suitable to supply DOD contractors. I will have some next week, so somebody can come take a look at them and see these are just a good parts kit at what I think is a good price.

 

[EonDresari]

I'd really like one of those parts kits without a trigger. Please post / let me know when you get them in.

 

[Jack]

PSA is slick with their words. They claim their parts are "assembled in South Carolina" I don't see Mil-spec or made in the USA on much of their stuff. I personally won't carry PSA.

I actually had a customer come in with take down pins machined incorrectly from PSA that wouldn't fit their lower, one of the reasons I am putting together a Spare parts rack, that isn't a money maker selling a part one at a time, it is a service for the customer.

All I can say is that these parts are guaranteed to be US made, most are made in the facility where they are being purchased from. They are Mil-Spec and suitable to supply DOD contractors. I will have some next week, so somebody can come take a look at them and see these are just a good parts kit at what I think is a good price.

That is why it is such a confusing thing for everyone. We know PSA is having quality issues, but they make the exact same claims you are making, so the universal question is what do you have to lend your claim credibility or to show your product is superior to theirs?

These kits are assembled right here at our new facility in Columbia. All parts are from mil-spec manufacturers and are made in the USA.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...arts-kits/palmetto-state-armory-lpk-emoe.html

I'm really not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just trying to explain what the confusion stems from.

 

[jasonj5313]

Screw it,

Nick when your lpk's come in I will buy one and check it out for myself.

Put me down for 1 might buy 2

Give me a call when they are in the 2747828



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[kcinnick]

PSA doesn't tag all of their kits with the "These kits are assembled right here at our new facility in Columbia. All parts are from mil-spec manufacturers and are made in the USA. " the cheap kits they tag with just the first half...

I doubt you could get an officer of PSA to come on here and state all of their LPK parts are 100% made in the USA. People guess where PSA gets their parts made, but I would venture to guess they use all of the major suppliers, even other branded manufactures, for parts.

 

[Jack]

PSA doesn't tag all of their kits with the "These kits are assembled right here at our new facility in Columbia. All parts are from mil-spec manufacturers and are made in the USA. " the cheap kits they tag with just the first half...

I doubt you could get an officer of PSA to come on here and state all of their LPK parts are 100% made in the USA. People guess where PSA gets their parts made, but I would venture to guess they use all of the major suppliers, even other branded manufactures, for parts.

Correct, the ptac and blackhawk stuff they don't, but it is identified by a separate name and priced a lot lower.

 

[jasonj5313]

When I was selling PSA their parts mainly came from FN. They also bought from a company up north, I think it was in Ohio.

I agree they procurement material from all over the place now.


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[JWG223]

PSA specifically told me that the bolt I bought from them came from the same company that Colt buys theirs from.

 

[kcinnick]

Well, my bolts don't come from PSA or Colt, but I can give you the Spec sheet when they come in. I have the old one but we upgraded a couple of things. It is just a phosphate coated, chrome lined M16 BCG. I forget all the numbers that are assigned to the metals.... The biggest savings come from me buying it as a manufacture with my name rather than buying from someone like PSA, JP or WOA or one of the many other Distributor/Dealers out there.

I would imagine bolt's would be one of the things Colt made in house, but who knows.

 

[JWG223]

Well, my bolts don't come from PSA or Colt, but I can give you the Spec sheet when they come in. I have the old one but we upgraded a couple of things. It is just a phosphate coated, chrome lined M16 BCG. I forget all the numbers that are assigned to the metals.... The biggest savings come from me buying it as a manufacture with my name rather than buying from someone like PSA, JP or WOA or one of the many other Distributor/Dealers out there.

I would imagine bolt's would be one of the things Colt made in house, but who knows.

Colt makes some in house, but supplements, as well.

 

[TinM@n]

dwr461:
Honest my ass, we have been waiting on pre-paid bullets for over a year and keep getting ignored every time we have contacted him about them. We are blown off and told that it is a Ferrara bullets problem and that it is separate from a Ferrara leather/or/firearms issue even though the same guy is chief wompam of them all.

Vanilla Gorilla & JWG223:
Stop waisting your time, confusion & obtusity is the name of the game here. You would get more straight answers smoking a piece-pipe with the Mad Hatter than you would this guy.

Confusion=pass Credibility=fail

 

[kcinnick]

dwr461:
Honest my ass, we have been waiting on pre-paid bullets for over a year and keep getting ignored every time we have contacted him about them. We are blown off and told that it is a Ferrara bullets problem and that it is separate from a Ferrara leather/or/firearms issue even though the same guy is chief wompam of them all.

1. I have never done any business with you, ever
2. If I could get in touch with the person that purchased the bullets, I had plenty of options for them
3. The person who did purchase the bullets has received thousands of bullets, and knew the order wasn't going to get filled at one time
4. Bullets where available for this order, and I was told they were not needed at the time I dropped them off at the store you work/worked at and they went into the store inventory and were sold instead of the purchaser picking them up.
5. Ferrara Leather Company and Ferrara Firearms are two separate companies. The bullets are sold under Ferrara Leather Company's FFL license. This is just due to Insurance reasons. I need to keep the two separate as possible. For Example, we don't sell bullets in our store, insurance won't allow it. I wouldn't mention it other than insurance wants things separate.

 

[kcinnick]

OK, so Ashley insisted we open the store so I had to cut that last post short...

We had growing pains with Ferrara Leather Company, we know that, and we are doing things different with Ferrara Firearms. They are two separate corporations, have separate FFL's, and the reason we have to treat them separate is the insurance company for Ferrara Firearms does NOT want any liability for the bullets. It is just an insurance thing and when I notice someone comments on it in an open forum I mention that.

We can sell more bullets than we can ever make. We have 4 $10,000 machines on order (along with 2 more sizers) - for nearly a year now. Our one machine has been run so much in the past year and a half it needs an overhaul. If you noticed, we don't advertise bullets for sale, I could sell out of whatever bullets I could make in a day just to existing customers. We have replacement parts on order, and even an upgrade to increase output (for months now), but at this point in time the machine basically needs to be babysat to keep running - not the purpose of an automatic bullet casting machine... We have a nice sets of new molds without lube grooves, plenty of lead and coating, but we can't get the production we need to make it full time for now, so we moved on. There are things beyond our control preventing us from keeping us from operating how we want, since there are only two suppliers of automatic casting equipment, we have no choice but to wait until they have parts/ new machines for us.

Our new building will have full bullet and ammo manufacturing operations, they just don't yet, you can't do much without the equipment, so we moved forward with the Gun store. Some people will notice I quoted 90 days for my billet lowers from 11/1. I am going to beat that time by over a month, I didn't want to take a chance of anodizing holding up the project, or worse the need to rerun the lowers! There were a couple of delays in the lower manufacturing process, and I didn't have to get on any of the forums and explain the delays, since I didn't promise what the manufactures quoted me.

And if the lovely lady would like to contact me, my information is EVERYWHERE and I would be happy to take care of her, if she would rather deal with Ashley, that is cool with me too. I have the utmost respect for the customer that purchased those bullets from me.

 

[TinM@n]

Wah-Wah is all I really understood from that whole rant.
Less time making chicken sh#$% excuses = happier/repeatable consumer base.
I think all the people on this thread were asking for is a little transparency but you keep opening yourself up to more scrutiny when you deflect from the main issue.