LSU's steps to being safer?

[JadeRaven]

Good to see some solid posts in here.

 

[MOTOR51]

Motor,
I don't want to make assumptions about you, but it seems from some of your comments that you may be against concealed carry in general. Maybe it's not, but I can't tell that you are tailoring your words to be about campus carry only. Is this the case? How do you and most of your fellow officers feel regarding concealed carry in general?

Also, I think we agree on a few things:
The 2nd amendment is not an unlimited right to carry anything you want anywhere you want and the supreme court has said so.
It is your job to carry a gun and you take on extra responsibilities which comes with special privileges. That's not a bad deal.
I understand the fears that you and Rainsdrop share regarding the possibility of what I guess you would call friendly fire. It is a possibility and even the police have blue-on-blue events. These often turn into tragedies and should not be dismissed. As an officer you may have even experienced such events. It is a scary scenario. The problem is, because the multiple shooter scenario is so scary and visceral and easy to imagine, we all have a tendency to seriously over-estimate the probability of it happening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic
What are the actual odds of that happening?

However, (and this is not all directed at you but to everyone here)
I don't understand why, if concealed carry was not illegal on campus, 50 or 60% of people would chose to be armed on campus. Less than 3% of people in LA have permits and less than half of them actually carry. Also, there's the age restriction. Surely less than 1% of people on campus would choose to be armed.

A number of people have also indicated that they would like more training to be required to carry on campus. I fail to see what is so special about the nature of a campus vs say a mall or a downtown area. The biggest difference I see is the large number of unarmed people grouped together which is exactly the feature a spree killer is attracted too.

We should go ahead and dispel the myth that our CHP training is insufficient and that permit holders are likely to add to bad situations.
We can do this by looking at the crime rates of concealed carriers. This study uses data from Texas and Florida, because they keep tabs on the permit holders better than most: http://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/cp...aled-handgun-permit-holders-are-even-more-so/

Texas and Florida have even less training required than we do and their permit holders are even more law abiding than the police (no dig at the 5-0 here, it is only because police are so law-abiding that it makes a good comparison). If you compare CHP holders to the general population, we blow them away (no pun intended) on not getting arrested.

Final point: Calling them 'college kids' really marginalizes people. No one wants to see frat boys strapped with glocks doing keg stands. That's not even what we are talking about. A CHP holder is a full grown man or woman, who chooses to take responsibility for their own safety. They already jump enough through hoops to do so. Let them.

I have no problem with people having a permit, I even have friends and family that have permits. My personal opinion is that it's a bad idea. That's my PERSONAL opinion. If they change the law Tomorrow and allow people to ha e tanks on campus then that would be the law and I wouldn't oppose it. I was simply giving an opinion. As long as you notify me that you have a firearm when I come into contact with you then I really don't care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hattrick 22]

I have no problem with people having a permit, I even have friends and family that have permits. My personal opinion is that it's a bad idea. That's my PERSONAL opinion. If they change the law Tomorrow and allow people to ha e tanks on campus then that would be the law and I wouldn't oppose it. I was simply giving an opinion. As long as you notify me that you have a firearm when I come into contact with you then I really don't care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand is it a bad idea that people have permits?

Or the possibility of people carrying on campus?

This isn't to flame you or anyone else before you answer I just would like to get some clarification is all you can hit me up in pm too if you'd like.

Thanks

 

[Whitebread]

I have no problem with people having a permit, I even have friends and family that have permits. My personal opinion is that it's a bad idea. That's my PERSONAL opinion. If they change the law Tomorrow and allow people to ha e tanks on campus then that would be the law and I wouldn't oppose it. I was simply giving an opinion. As long as you notify me that you have a firearm when I come into contact with you then I really don't care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The more you say the more it seems that you have issues with civilians owning guns. I understand your a cop and I would venture to say you see a segment of society that may warrant a loss of faith in people every now and then, but you have to keep end mind there are those of us whom guns are almost as much a part of our daily grind as yours. I would also venture to say many civilians here in particular handle their weapons as good or better than than the average middle America cop, they shoot more, drill more, put more thought into carry strategy, draw, cover and concealment. Now the larger departments get their recruits better training but some smaller departments are a crap shoot at best. I am by no means saying I'm the guy you want if an active shooter situation were to occur, but I'm proficient, very safety oriented, and most importantly I won't cower and let some wacko kill a room full of people.

 

[MOTOR51]

Do y'all actually read comments I make or just assume what you want. My last sentence in the comments you both quoted says I DONT CARE. That means I don't care if you have a permit, or carry openly. CARRYING ON CAMPUS IS A BAD IDEA IN MY OPINION. Once again, this is just my opinion. Y'all have your opinion and that's fine, it doesn't really matter. If anyone else has any questions about me being anti gun I will say it one more time, I DONT CARE IF YIU CARRY A GUN. I don't know how else I can get that point through.

My opinions:

Carry gun on campus= bad idea

Carry a gun legally everywhere else= I don't care


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Vermiform]

Do y'all actually read comments I make or just assume what you want. My last sentence in the comments you both quoted says I DONT CARE. That means I don't care if you have a permit, or carry openly. CARRYING ON CAMPUS IS A BAD IDEA IN MY OPINION. Once again, this is just my opinion. Y'all have your opinion and that's fine, it doesn't really matter. If anyone else has any questions about me being anti gun I will say it one more time, I DONT CARE IF YIU CARRY A GUN. I don't know how else I can get that point through.

My opinions:

Carry gun on campus= bad idea

Carry a gun legally everywhere else= I don't care

Do you believe the 2nd Amendment protects an individual's right to bear arms?

 

[Whitebread]

My opinions:

Carry gun on campus= bad idea

Carry a gun legally everywhere else= I don't care


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You say you don't care but lets change up the scenarios.

Say it wasnt legal to carry a gun anywhere for a civilian, and people were lobbying for it to be legal. What side of that argument would you find yourself on?

Lets change it up again: say its legal to carry anywhere in America there are no public places that are gun free zones and people were lobbying to make it illegal to carry a gun to... I dont know.... A college campus? What side of the arguement do you find yourself.

I'm not out to attack you in any way and I appreciate your willingness to discuss this freely. All I'm looking for is honest answers. See I think the root cause of our countries problems is we don't really self-govern. We look to the government to see what we are allowed to control ourselves. Thats not what this country was founded on, Ben Franklin was qouted famusly saying when asked what type of government they had developed for us, "A republic if YOU can keep it". He didn't say we the elite or the government, will keep it but the everyday Joe six-pack like you and me. We have strayed too far from that line of thinking. Now we have to get premission to do dang near everything in life from one governing body or another. Dig a hole get.. get a permit. Travel to see family... Better have a license and insurance, and that vehicle better be registered and inspected. Buy a gun... Fill out this form. Buy ammo... Lets make sure you are old enough. Conceal a gun... Oh snap he's crazy... take this class fill out these form... wait 6-12 weeks. Oh and you dang well better let the cop that pulled you over to make sure your inspection sticker wasnt expaired knows you are a permit holder and if he requires turn your weapon over to him to make sure its clean. Remember I'm not attacking anyone especially those who pin on that badge and strap on that gun where everyone can see it. I thank those of you willing to do so, but I fear as a nation we have strayed to far from independent free thinking free acting people.

 

[MOTOR51]

Do you believe the 2nd Amendment protects an individual's right to bear arms?

Seriously? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MOTOR51]

You say you don't care but lets change up the scenarios.

Say it wasnt legal to carry a gun anywhere for a civilian, and people were lobbying for it to be legal. What side of that argument would you find yourself on?

Lets change it up again: say its legal to carry anywhere in America there are no public places that are gun free zones and people were lobbying to make it illegal to carry a gun to... I dont know.... A college campus? What side of the arguement do you find yourself.

I'm not out to attack you in any way and I appreciate your willingness to discuss this freely. All I'm looking for is honest answers. See I think the root cause of our countries problems is we don't really self-govern. We look to the government to see what we are allowed to control ourselves. Thats not what this country was founded on, Ben Franklin was qouted famusly saying when asked what type of government they had developed for us, "A republic if YOU can keep it". He didn't say we the elite or the government, will keep it but the everyday Joe six-pack like you and me. We have strayed too far from that line oc thinking. Now we have to get premission to do dang near everything in life from one governing body or another. Dig a hole get.. get a permit. Travel to see family... Better have a license and insurance, and that vehicle better be registered and inspected. Buy a gun... Fill out this form. Buy ammo... Lets make sure you are old enough. Conceal a gun... Oh snap he's crazy... take this class fill out these form... wait 6-12 weeks. Oh and you dang well better let the cop that pulled you over to make sure your inspection sticker wasnt expaired knows you are a permit holder and if he requires turn your weapon over to him to make sure its clean. Remember I'm not attacking anyone especially those who pin on that badge and strap on that gun where everyone can see it. I thank those of you willing to do so, but I fear as a nation we havd strayed to far from independent free thinking free acting people.

I think there has to be laws governing the carrying of firearms. You obviously know the answer to the question about the carrying on college campus. As far as the other hypothetical question, I'd probably vote against carrying freely by everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whitebread]

Do you believe the 2nd Amendment protects an individual's right to bear arms?

I personally prefer bear claws.

 

[MOTOR51]

Whitebread, did you ever serve in the military?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whitebread]

As far as the other hypothetical question, I'd probably vote against carrying freely by everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And you dont see that as a blatant affront to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution? You do realize number one and number two carry the following eight right?

 

[Whitebread]

Whitebread, did you ever serve in the military?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No sir I did not. I graduated high school shortly after our ground invasion in Iraq. I had friends and family doing 18 month stints in Afganistan and I was in love with a hot blond now wife and mother of my children. Short answer I wussed out. Thats not to say I wouldn't die defending my country.

 

[Vermiform]

Seriously? Lol

Yeah dude, seriously. Not a trick question, was just curious what your views were on the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Whitebread]

Motor let me throw one more quick question at you.

If the president unilaterally banned firearms from civilians, would you uphold an unlawful gun grab?

Same question except make it a bilateral majority vote in the house and senate.

 

[MOTOR51]

And you dont see that as a blatant affront to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution? You do realize number one and number two carry the following eight right?

No ,I do not see it that way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MOTOR51]

Motor let me throw one more quick question at you.

If the president unilaterally banned firearms from civilians, would you uphold an unlawful gun grab?

Same question except make it a bilateral majority vote in the house and senate.

I see you like to ask a lot of questions. Why didn't you preface this question with "I'm not trying to flame you"? What do you think I would do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MOTOR51]

Yeah dude, seriously. Not a trick question, was just curious what your views were on the 2nd Amendment.

Well I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and tell you I believe it's to allow everyone no matter what to carry guns wherever whenever. I believe it was to address militias of the time. I do not think it was to address CHP on LSU campuses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MOTOR51]

Motor let me throw one more quick question at you.

If the president unilaterally banned firearms from civilians, would you uphold an unlawful gun grab?

Same question except make it a bilateral majority vote in the house and senate.

Well never mind then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whitebread]

I see you like to ask a lot of questions. Why didn't you preface this question with "I'm not trying to flame you"? What do you think I would do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because I stated previously my goal is not to attack but to understand. And hopefully get you thinking because one day you will be faced with some of these very questions, and my hope is a well meaning officer of the law doesnt get fooled into violating his oat. Cause let me tell you they will not stop with making civilians unarmed.