Marines confront Officer Sgt. Major Davis

[oleheat]

Wow....That guy's career has really taken a nosedive since Passenger 57...

 

[madwabbit]

Wow....That guy's career has really taken a nosedive since Passenger 57...

haha it does kind of look like him

 

[LA_LEO]

this happens fairly often believe it or not. I've seen more of it in louisiana than I ever saw in NC. Maybe its because when you're that close to a military base people just "know".

"Yeah I was in Iraq"

"What was your mos?"

"Umm...."

Well?

I was a Marine Sniper Jump Seal.


Heh. You don't say?!

Mad...you forgot to mention that he was a Recon Ranger on top of his Marine Sniper Jump Seal!

 

[madwabbit]

Mad...you forgot to mention that he was a Recon Ranger on top of his Marine Sniper Jump Seal!

Ah yes. and judging by his medals he was in vietnam, the gulf war, and Iraq twice.

pretty impressive for a 24 year old.

 

[AustinBR]

Ah yes. and judging by his medals he was in vietnam, the gulf war, and Iraq twice.

pretty impressive for a 24 year old.

He also fought in World War II.

 

[LA_LEO]

We need to find out where he has this war time machine!

 

[TomTerrific]

Don't overlook the CIB.

 

[oppsImissed]

I was so proud when I graduated tech school at Ft Mcclellon. Couldnt wait to show of my uniform, well not really. I found out quick the us MP'S werent very well liked on post. I was happy with the MOS I chose but soon wished I had picked something more important. I was upset when they closed that post. I want to go back and look around. I hear you can still get on post. I have watched Youtube videos that showed the CTA where Senior Drill Sgt. Worked me out till I puked. I hope to God I never run accrossed one of the "POSERS". I dont know if I could contain myself.

 

[RussnAttitude]

I was so proud when I graduated tech school at Ft Mcclellon. Couldnt wait to show of my uniform, well not really. I found out quick the us MP'S werent very well liked on post. I was happy with the MOS I chose but soon wished I had picked something more important. I was upset when they closed that post. I want to go back and look around. I hear you can still get on post. I have watched Youtube videos that showed the CTA where Senior Drill Sgt. Worked me out till I puked. I hope to God I never run accrossed one of the "POSERS". I dont know if I could contain myself.

If you do, make sure to have fun with em. Haha. Btw, love the avatar....

 

[Epi5]

So lets get the straight, he was an active member of the Marines, Army, and Navy all at once? We got a bad@$$ right here!

 

[Pas Tout La]

I don't get it..... A quick google search was all it took to make sure his uniform was in regs and he could have probably gotten away with it. With that cluster f**k he had on, he had to have known he was eventually going to be called out in it. He could always say that's his Stomp Team's uniform.

 

[radney]

A couple of us saw a guy like this on the tram in Dallas. Guy was in his fifties wearing probably 30 medals and begging for money saying he was homeless and just got back from Iraq. It was hard just to shut up and not tear them off even though our service was pretty modest by "comparison." A+ to those guys for calling him out.

On a lighter note - if one did walk up and just rip their medals off would anything really happen?

 

[CEHollier]

So lets get the straight, he was an active member of the Marines, Army, and Navy all at once? We got a bad@$$ right here!

Chuck Norris of the armed forces. I don't even think Kevin Segal can do that.

 

[kingfhb]

I can't believe how common this is. I mean, even when I was in we had guys getting busted wearing ribbons or medals that weren't theirs... but come on! It was pretty much the same thing, mostly guys wanting attention... and they got it, a trip to the brig and loss of rank/pay.

Unfortunately, there is no real criminal penalty. Unless a person is in the military and wearing insignias that do not belong to them or that they did not earn. A civilian wearing them is not a criminal offense (though it should be!). Now if they were in possession of a fake military ID, or a fake DD214, or posing as a military member to gain access to a military or federal installation, attempting to defraud an organization (though not a federal crime, this would be criminal and up to the company to press charges) or something to that effect. Defrauding the general public by wearing the uniform and telling people you're something you're not isn't a crime unless those he is telling it to feel as if they have been victimized in some way... then it's up to them to report it and file charges.

Here are the actual statutes.

18 USC § 912 - Officer or employee of the United States
Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States or any department, agency or officer thereof, and acts as such, or in such pretended character demands or obtains any money, paper, document, or thing of value, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

10 USC § 771 - Unauthorized wearing prohibited
Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear— (1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or (2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps.

At most the Federal Government could have an injunction filed against this person... but not much more.

 

[madwabbit]

I don't get it..... A quick google search was all it took to make sure his uniform was in regs and he could have probably gotten away with it. With that cluster f**k he had on, he had to have known he was eventually going to be called out in it. He could always say that's his Stomp Team's uniform.

google gives you the knowledge - the practice is a whole other animal. scam artists aren't going to break out a ruler.

 

[Hitman]

A civilian wearing them is not a criminal offense (though it should be!).

What do you think the Stolen Valor Act of 2013 is?

If worn for/with;

The intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit
from convincing someone that he or she rightfully did receive that award.

It is in violation of a Federal Law.

(d) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than one year,
or both.''.

 

[kingfhb]

Wearing military decorations with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit from convincing someone that he or she rightfully did receive that award.

Again, it depends on what the court would view "TANGIBLE BENEFIT" as being. Simply wearing the uniform proves no "TANGIBLE BENEFIT". As i said above... if they attemt to defraud someone in relation to wearing the uniform to gain money, property, etc. as stated above, then he would be in violation of a federal crime or could have federal charges brought up against him.

You would have to prove that this guy showed up at this funeral with the intent to "obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit by convincing someone that he or she rightfully did receive a specific award". The simple act of WEARING the uniform or awards to the funeral is NOT a criminal offense.

What it comes down to is how the attorneys and judge will inturpret the law. It has to be specific enough not to punish those who are intending to commit a crime... for example... Hypathetically speaking... if the little girl who was just recently mailed a purple heart medal wears it on Television as part of a campaign to raise money for her family to cover medical bills or something... technically, that is a crime in accordance with the Stolen Valor Act. She is wearing an award she is not authorized to wear... the simple fact that she is wearing it could be construed as her displaying the right to receive that award (even though any idiot would know she couldn't have). However, her pinning it to her chest to wear to a party at someone's house would not be a crime (because there's no intent). Or some kid wearing his grandfathers military uniform jacket to the park... no intent... he's just wearing it because it looked cool. If he was at the party asking for money saying he is a vet... different story... that would be a crime.

The guy who took the first class seat recently (even though it was given to him), one could make the argument that it was his intent to receive such a benefit by wearing the uniform in the airport. The attorneys would just have to prove that was his intent.

One thing they could argue is that he wore the uniform and awards in an attempt to defraud the funeral guests into believing he was a vet and in turn received thanks or gratitude or recognition of somekind. Maybe he needed a job and someone gave it to him after meeting with him at the funeral... the money he then receives from that job could be "Tangible benefit"... or the fact of getting the job could be viewed as a "benefit". Hell... if they let him sit in the front row, that could be construed as a benefit. If just ONE PERSON handed him $1 or even a penny and he took it... that would be tangible goods. Or even if he received permission to attend on a lie (like saying he knew the deceased from his time served in the military) and he took home a funeral program... that's tangible goods (though you would need to prove that was his intent in the first place). You may be able to make an argument that a crime was committed under the Stolen Valor Act.

THAT's why the Stolen Valor Act reads the way it does. SIMPLY WEARING the uniform and awards is NOT a criminal act... even under the Stolen Valor Act. Could they get an attorney and a judge that served and get a guilty verdict? Sure... but then there's the appeals process... which would more than likely overturn it. Probably with him being charged and then released pending the outcome of the trial... which would end up costing the taxpayers tens of thousands (depending on how far it went) and then striking a deal with the guy to never wear them again (which would then make it a CRIME for him to wear them because it would be in violation of a court ruling).

I'm not saying AT ALL that it SHOULDN'T be a CRIME. I wore my uniform and served my country and have to say someone should take this guys head off if... those awards should be in place of those gold teeth.

 

[Hitman]

Uh...yea that's pretty much what I just said.

Tangible Benefits is clearly defined. There's no question on what it means
and the court isn't going to re-define the two terms.

If you wear the uniform, and declare that you earned the listed Medals
and receive so much a s Free Drink b/c of our false declaration
you violated the Stolen Valor Act.

If you wear it to a Halloween Party as a costume
you don't.

 

[madwabbit]

Uh...yea that's pretty much what I just said.

Tangible Benefits is clearly defined. There's no question on what it means
and the court isn't going to re-define the two terms.

If you wear the uniform, and declare that you earned the listed Medals
and receive so much a s Free Drink b/c of our false declaration
you violated the Stolen Valor Act.

If you wear it to a Halloween Party as a costume
you don't.

its not written for free drinks. (I'm not saying that makes it any different...)

its written for military discounts from businesses, tuition at schools, etc. A lot of people offer benefits or discounts for military service, and civilians that aren't savvy enough to ask for an ID or DD214 etc would probably glance at a set of BDU's and figure "thats good enough".

Hell, I'll bet that if you showed the guy above's picture to 100 civilians and ask what he does: 95 will say "he's probably a marine."

The other 5 would ask for the guys address

 

[kingfhb]

Uh...yea that's pretty much what I just said.

Tangible Benefits is clearly defined. There's no question on what it means
and the court isn't going to re-define the two terms.

If you wear the uniform, and declare that you earned the listed Medals
and receive so much a s Free Drink b/c of our false declaration
you violated the Stolen Valor Act.

If you wear it to a Halloween Party as a costume
you don't.

Well, again, that's not necissarily true... Was the free drink given to him because he was wearing the uniform? Was everyone there given a free drink? Did someone buy it for him because of a specific award that he was wearing (in some cases just him wearing the award may be a false declaration and he wouldn't have to actually say anything... so could be the uniform itself).

Other military organizations would love to expand it as well... even some government contractors. Like someone sporting a Tripple Canopy patch or Blackwater or Xe or something claiming to be part of those organizations... or maybe someone wearing a frog skeleton or Navy SEAL shirt or ball-cap into a bar or even a SEAL Trident Tattoo! Personally I think it should cover LEO's or Firefighters as well... though then you run into issues like someone wearing a NYPD T-Shirt and walking into a bar and someone buys them a drink because they think they are part of the NYPD.

I guess what I'm saying is there's a lot more to it than that. In legal terms, everything is not cut and dry and attorneys make a field day of inturpretation and intent.

Though as I stated above, I am in agreement that these guys should go away for a long time. Anyone who has never served (or has served and tried to misrepresent themselves) just takes away from those brothers who earn those awards... and that deserves some kind of penalty.

It's easy for us to say what SHOULD be done... but in the end it's up to the judge (if it makes it that far) and the attorneys... if the offender even sees the inside of a courtroom or jail cell.