Mini Van Stop turns into Wild Chase with Shots Fired

[luv1979]

http://gma.yahoo.com/minivan-stop-turns-wild-chase-mom-kids-233648112--abc-news-topstories.html

Obviously the mother and the 14 year old son were in the wrong. Mom, from the instant she decided to flee the scene the first time. The son from the time he chose to get out of the van and enter into a physical confrontation with the LEO.

Those facts can't be disputed, however I would be interested to hear what some of you guys think about the actions the three officers took... was the use of the baton to bash out the van window with 5 kids inside "over the top" or was it justified because the 14 y/o who had started the physical altercation with with the officer was now locked himself inside the van? Also, was the choice to fire on a van that had five children inside the correct or incorrect response?

Just curious what others think.

 

[Born4spd]

The actions of the LEO were brave in my opinion. The mother was not acting rationally and was endangering all of the children in the vehicle.
I think their thoughts were likely more on the line of "holy **** gotta get this vehicle to stop, if she takes off she could wreck with these kids in here" vs "respect my authority" *smash* *smash* damn kid trying to fight me *smash* *smash*

I think Steve Urkel(sp?)'s dad should not have opened fire, but he appeared to arrive late on scene and may not have been aware of the situation in its entirety. He may have also been aware, and was aiming for rubber.

Hard to say, wasn't there.

 

[kz45]

In before it's closed

 

[freedive10]

In before it's closed

Why would it be closed?

Not commenting b/ I was not there nor do I pretend to have the training these officers have. My opinion matters nothing. If really interested, see how it plays out in court. That will give you a better idea on the reality of this incident.

 

[Hermit]

She resisted and earned a trip to the pokey,
but WTF were they shooting at them for?!?

Imagine killing a suspect fleeing from a traffic stop?!?

 

[Kraut]

My opinion only, I am not a super-tactical-ultra-ninja-high-speed-operator-SWATstar-ubertrainer, just a cop: If the officer who initially stopped her, and then stopped her a second time, had delayed his attempt at physical custody until other officers arrived, this most likely would not have gone as far South as it did. Police officers are taught that obtaining control and order at a scene is essential, but we often get stuck in the "Act" part of the OODA loop which frequently results in videos of officers continually wailing on subjects with batons, stuck on a tactic that is not working, trying to get the expected result rather than observing it's not working, re-orienting, and trying something else. Once out of the vehicle and away from the throttle, he had at least partial control over her movement and continued presence. She would likely have gladly stood there arguing and trying to verbally justify her actions out of stubbornness and her belief that she was somehow right, during which time back-up would have been closing the distance. Police often want to secure the scene or a person as quick as possible, but sometimes slowing down can be our safest option. By the time the scuffle had taken place and the one officer busted the window, I don't have a problem with the window smash that seems to have drawn some of the focus as being possibly "over the top". I would be pretty miffed with the one who took the shots.

Taking the liability-conscious view, her ID was apparently known from the initial stop when the officer was getting ready to go back to his car and write her a cite or maybe just run her info and decide on a warning. Having that information available, even given her physical resistance to arrest and the involvement of the son at the second scene, it may have been wiser for a supervisor to call the ensuing pursuit off, knowing that there were numerous children in the vehicle (assuming that factor was communicated properly). It's hard to make those decisions, to rein in the adrenalin and "let them get away" when these things jump off and evolve in a matter of seconds. Add in the usual chaotic information flow and it's even more difficult.

 

[Mojo Rider]

Watched this video in total disbelief earlier today.
What's so difficult about saying "sorry officer, didn't know I was speeding", sign the ticket and go on with your day. Happens to me 3-4 times a year and I've never been tased or chased around my car by a baton wielding cop.

Full video here http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e04_1384624968

 

[SpeedRacer]

I think he should have shot a GPS laser tracker at the vehicle and backed off.


Really though, the officer shooting looked like he was unaware there were children in the car, and I'm almost positive he was shooting at the tires. Which is arguably dumb regardless of situation. Either way it all comes back to the mother being an idiot and raising an even dumber thug ass kid.

 

[freedive10]

I think he should have shot a GPS laser tracker at the vehicle and backed off.


Really though, the officer shooting looked like he was unaware there were children in the car, and I'm almost positive he was shooting at the tires. Which is arguably dumb regardless of situation. Either way it all comes back to the mother being an idiot and raising an even dumber thug ass kid.

I agree up to the "Dumb ass kid" part. I don't know about you but I commend the kid for protecting his mom! I just wish it had not been in this situation. "DUMB ASS MOM for putting her kids in that spot and forcing her young son to have to commit!

 

[Hermit]

Mebbie one our officers can answer this,
I thought they only shot out the tires in the movies.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I agree up to the "Dumb ass kid" part. I don't know about you but I commend the kid for protecting his mom! I just wish it had not been in this situation. "DUMB ASS MOM for putting her kids in that spot and forcing her young some to have to commit!

No that kid wasn't doing anything like protecting his mom from a bad guy. He was a 14 year old kid who assaulted a cop, who was doing nothing wrong, without hesitation. He had no problem getting violent and zero respect for law enforcement. Remember, his mom was the bad guy in the situation. He wasn't protecting her, he was assisting her.

 

[AustinBR]

No that kid wasn't doing anything like protecting his mom from a bad guy. He was a 14 year old kid who assaulted a cop, who was doing nothing wrong, without hesitation. He had no problem getting violent and zero respect for law enforcement. Remember, his mom was the bad guy in the situation. He wasn't protecting her, he was assisting her.

Agreed. I would say that the situation could have been handled better and the cop could have waited for backup to arrive, but it didn't play out like that. I don't really think they did anything wrong besides firing at the car. Bashing the windows in in order to get into the locked car is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. I think that the mom and the son are lucky they didn't get tasered.

 

[machinedrummer]

I'm shocked this hasn't been turned into a race issue yet.

 

[CEHollier]

I'm shocked this hasn't been turned into a race issue yet.

It will. Give it time to get legs. People like this are what is wrong with the country.

 

[Jack]

It will. Give it time to get legs. People like this are what is wrong with the country.

That's fine, but we don't need you guy's making it into a race issue here.

 

[CEHollier]

That's fine, but we don't need you guy's making it into a race issue here.

I meant people with no respect for law enforcement.

And I stand by my previous statement. give it time and it will be a race issue.

 

[machinedrummer]

It just went racial on Dr. Drew.

 

[Jack]

I meant people with no respect for law enforcement.

And I stand by my previous statement. give it time and it will be a race issue.

That's my point though... why do you think it will be a race issue? Because of the race of the people in the van. Don't you think you're making it a race issue by insisting that it become one? Why acknowledge race in this at all?

 

[CEHollier]

That's my point though... why do you think it will be a race issue? Because of the race of the people in the van. Don't you think you're making it a race issue by insisting that it become one? Why acknowledge race in this at all?

Racism is an industry and a political system within itself. And the media feed on it for ratings. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Just my opinion.

 

[Jack]

But it hasn't shown itself here yet. You are promoting it. Saying it will become a race issue because these people are black is just as racist as them making it into a race issue where it isn't one.