Non-Resident Gun Sale

[BIGGREEN]

I've got a pending sale of a gun to a FL resident who is in the Coast Guard and staioned in N.O. What, if anything, do I have to do differently to sell him a handgun? I usually just have a Bill of Sale with the Model, SN, etc. with the Buyer's Name, Address, DL#, and last 4 of SSN (just a little extra), and signatures. I purchased the gun from a dealer so it is registered in my name and I don't want any heat down the road. I figured I would get a QUICKER and more ACCURATE answer here rather than calling SO or LSP.

Thanks

 

[nickatnite]

Go thru a FFL...

 

[Jed]

.....pretty sure he has to have a LA drivers licence

 

[Jed]

should have added - if you want to do a FFS.
I know from experience that he has to be a LA resident also (again FFS) unless the Coastguard has something overiding that provision.

 

[spanky]

FL resident = has to go through an FFL in FL

 

[honestlou]

FL resident = has to go through an FFL in FL

This is correct. The best way I can think to accomplish this is to meet the buyer at UPS or fedex, let him look at the gun, pay you, then box it and ship it to an FFL in Florida with whom he's made arrangements.

Buyer will have to do the transfer in Florida, and then will be free to bring it back to LA if he wants.

 

[afwxman]

If he is stationed in LA, he is considered a LA resident. If you want to be safe, ask him for a copy of his military orders sending him to N.O. This is straight from the Bossier City Police officer, and no, military members do not have to get LA drivers liscenses.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

If he is stationed in LA, he is considered a LA resident. If you want to be safe, ask him for a copy of his military orders sending him to N.O. This is strait from the Bossier City Police officer.

 

[spanky]

If he is stationed in LA, he is considered a LA resident. If you want to be safe, ask him for a copy of his military orders sending him to N.O. This is strait from the Bossier City Police officer.

With all due respect, I would want more something more definitive than word of mouth from a police officer.

 

[charlie12]

Is that kind of like the can't OC in Gonzales?

 

[charlie12]

A guy I know that lives by a Jail Deputy had a little run in with him yesterday. Seem like the guy I know hauled ass down the road when leaving his house yesterday after lunch. The jail deputy neighbor flagged him down and told him he would write him up for DRAG RACING. I might be dumb but doesn't it take more than one car to DRAG RACE? My buddy asked if his loud ass mufflers were illegal and they jail deputy told him no. .
End of Story, carry on.

 

[tbeubs17]

I am a reservist at Barksdale and they sell guns in the base exchange. I have seen AD guys buying guns as long as they have a copy of their orders stating they are stationed here.

 

[honestlou]

The origianal poster said the buyer was a FL resident. If so, the transfer has to go through a FL FFL. If the buyer is permanently stationed in LA, he may well be a Louisiana resident.

I don't see any exceptions in federal law for military personnel, other than they can be shipped firearms overseas, etc. There may be something that defines residence for military personnel, but most of what I found with a quick search talked about tax purposes, and even then would require a permanent duty assignment.

 

[afwxman]

http://dpsweb.dps.louisiana.gov/omvfaqs.nsf?OpenDatabase&Start=1&Count=1000&Expand=5

Click on Military, no license required.

 

[afwxman]

All I can find is military are considered Residents for College tuition and Game and Fish Licenses.

Ive been here three years and bought numerous guns from pawn shops, gun stores and individuals. One person had a problem selling me a firearm, so he said he was going to do a little research. He came back and said, he was fine as long as I had a mil id and orders transfering me to LA. He told me he called the Bossier DA.

All FFL's want to see my orders, mil id, and state drivers license, and I have never had a problem. You are right, I shouldnt have taken the BPD officers word for it.

 

[Tim67]

If he is stationed in LA, he is considered a LA resident. If you want to be safe, ask him for a copy of his military orders sending him to N.O. This is straight from the Bossier City Police officer, and no, military members do not have to get LA drivers liscenses.

I thought service personnel had some flexibility in meeting residency requirements. Looks like this is the way.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

You can quote all the military exceptions to laws you want, but the only iones that will matter in this particular case will cone from BATF.

it does not matter that stationed mil do not need to register vehicles, renew DL's, all other manner of legal expemtions. However, none of that exempts them from federal regularions that pertain to firearms. If such a regulation exists, it will be found in federal laws pertaining to firearms.

WHile most of what people listed is true, those are states laws that are extended to mil as a courtesy which vary state to state.

Look on the ATF website...

I remember guns being sold at PX's also, so there very well may be some obscure law which allows it to happen, though it may be only on bases or whatnot.

 

[afwxman]

Ok, just got off the phone with the ATF office in Shreveport. He said as long as I have military orders showing that Louisiana is my place of duty, I am considered a legal resident of Louisiana, and that I hold a dual residency of the state I am from and Louisiana. I asked for the specific law, and he said he would have to do alot of digging, but he confirmed it with the Agent in charge of the Shreveport BATF office.

I also asked if this pertained to me buying a firearm from another member of the military, who had a different legal residence than mine. The agent said as long as we were both here on Permanent orders (not TDY or TAD) that we were both residents of Louisiana.

Sorry I couldnt get the statute that says this.

 

[BIGGREEN]

Thanks! I got it straight. Appreciate the input. Not sure what to say about Drag Racing though...LOL

 

[honestlou]

Sorry for the delay with this post--I thought I had posted it the other day, but apparently not. I emailed BATF the other morning, and actually received a response the same day that is useful. Here it is in it's entirety:

Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email dated January 7, 2011, in which you inquire about Active Duty military and the definition of residency” as it applies to military personnel.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), section 922(a)(3) prohibits any person not licensed under the GCA (nonlicensees) from receiving any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside the State in which the person resides. Furthermore, section 922(a)(9) provides, in part, that it is unlawful for any unlicensed person who does not reside in any State to receive any firearm unless such receipt is for lawful sporting purposes. Pursuant to section 922(b)(3), the GCA also prohibits licensees from selling or delivering firearms to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located. Section 922(a)(5) extends the prohibition, with some limited exceptions, to any unlicensed person transferring a firearm to anyone who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in the transferor’s State of residence.

A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.” Ownership of a home or land within a given State is not sufficient, by itself, to establish a State of residence. However, ownership of a home or land within a particular State is not required to establish presence and intent to make a home in that State. Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State.
To ensure compliance with this residency requirement, section 922(t) of the GCA requires licensees to examine a valid “identification document” (as defined in 18 U.S.C. 1028(d) and 27 CFR 478.11) of a firearm transferee. This document must contain the residence address of the transferee so that the licensee may verify the identity of the transferee and discern whether the transferee has the intention of making a home in a particular State. Licensees transferring a firearm to a person not licensed under the GCA are required, pursuant to 27 CFR 478.124, to record the firearm transaction on an ATF Form 4473, which requires, among other things, the transferee’s residence address, including the transferee’s State of residence as it appears on the valid identification document.

The term “identification document” is defined by 18 U.S.C. 1028(d)(3) as “a document made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State . . . which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals.” The regulations, 27 CFR 478.11, define the term “identification document” as “[a] document containing the name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the holder and which was made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State . . . which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals.” Identification documents include, but are not limited to, a driver’s license, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration. As explained in ATF Ruling 2001-5 (ATFQB 2001-4, 37), a combination of valid government documents may be used to satisfy the GCA’s State residency requirement.

ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11 (definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. See also ATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or off-campus housing is located.

The same reasoning applies to citizens of the United States who reside temporarily outside of the country for extended periods of time, but who also maintain residency in a particular State. Where a citizen temporarily resides outside of the country, but also has the intention of making a home in a particular State, the citizen is a resident of the State during the time he or she actually resides in that State. In acquiring a firearm, the individual must demonstrate to the transferor-licensee that he or she is a resident of the State by presenting valid identification documents.

Additional information may be found at: http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2010-06.pdf (Valid Identification Document on page 3) and http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2004-08.pdf (Sales to Military Personnel – Residency Verification on page 2).

In addition, ATF does not have any jurisdiction over State laws. You should contact the appropriate State Attorney General’s Office or other appropriate State agencies to inquire about what requirements they may have in regards to your personal situation. A list of the State Attorney General’s Offices may be found in the internet at http://www.naag.org.

We trust this correspondence has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact your local ATF Industry Operations Office. A list of ATF Office telephone numbers can be found at http://www.atf.gov/contact/field.htm.