OC gun grab? Actual case...

[Nolacopusmc]

Copied this from www.laopencarry.org which was copied from other site...

There are a lot of issues in this incident from general weapon retention, mistaken identity, Midnight warrantless No KNock searches ( ), and the whole OC vs CC element of surprise.

Keep it civil, but I think this incident creates a lot or great learning points.....

Saw this at OCDO and thought we could discuss it here too.
Summary- OCer goes into resturant with family for dinner. Customer with metal history comes in, sees gun, announces that he's DEA and has evidence the OCer is going to rob the place. Fight begins. Different reports say different things. One mentions that the gun fell from the holster and a bystander picked it up during the fight, giving it to a employee to secure. Another article says the nutcase/DEAwannabe managed to get the gun out of the holster during the struggle and was waving it around before customers got it away from him.
Nutcase arrested and SO WAS THE OCer. OCer was carrying in a resturant which serves alcohol for on site consumption. New Mexico has laws similar to Louisiana which bans carry in resturants selling alcohol.
See the articles here-
http://www.usacarry.com/open-carrier-ar ... r-scuffle/
and
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S198 ... ml?cat=500 <-good video here.
and
http://www.koat.com/r/26938084/detail.html <-another video here too with an employee who helped.
Looking at the OCer (on the videos) you can see he's a guy who looks to be in good shape, high & tight crewcut, nice clothes. Looks almost like any LEO you'd see walking around.
He either didn't know about the laws against carrying in resturants serving alcohol OR he knew but figured that he would carry and anyone seeing the gun would just assume he was a cop.
Durring the fight he lost control of his weapon. I wonder what kind of retention training he had and if he had practiced or prepared in advance for such an encounter.
What kind of holster was he using? A simple, level 1 type or a level 2 Serpa? Hey, could it have been a level 3 Uncle Mikes duty holster like I use? Naaa. If so the gun would have never been removed from the holster. <sarcasm>.
The guys at OCDO started argueing over wether this was a true gun grab or not. Based on the report saying the gun fell to the floor and secured by an employee the arguement is that it was an attempted grab but not successful. If you believe the other report then it was a successful grab since the nutcase was able to wave the gun around.
You can read the OCDO threads about this at-
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... ry-arrests
and
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... d-while-OC .
Personally I think this is a scenerio every OCer should consider and plan to counter. So far reports of attempted gun grabs against OCers have been almost an urban legend. It can and eventually will happen to someone. Make sure that you are not the one who becomes the unlucky statistic.

Discuss.

My response.

I understand this is intended to be a retention discussion, and obviously the suspect was mental, but the fact remains, if his gun wa concealed, he would have had the same level of protection, with the additon of the element of surprise and would have enjoyed his meal without all this drama. Perhaps the mere sight of the gun this retards disco ball that got his mind dancing...who knows. Fact remains though, he keyed in on the gun and it turned out bad for the GG.

The is one example of the benefits of CC vs OC in many situations...not all, but most that we would find ourselves in. If GG was CC, then when crazyJoe decided to freak out on the ketchup packets or something, if appropriate, he could have drawn and eliminated the threat. However; instead, he became part of the threat.

 

[biggin215]

This is a very interesting story. I'm going to have to watch the videos when I get out of class but from the sound of it, OCer had a major fail no matter which story you believe.

 

[deafdave3]

How did the struggle start? Did the nutcase try to take the gun away from him?

 

[biggin215]

Dave

Sounds to me like the guy started to get loud about being DEA or something.... maybe got physical with the OCer and it devolved into a scuffle.


Pangris

Depends on if he ends up being charged and prosecuted, huh? Might not be able to carry anymore. That would be illegal carrying of a weapon, right? Felony?

 

[sraacke]

I think I read about this somewhere... Looking at he video I would have probably assumed the OCer was a cop. Shame he screwed up and became the target of a nutjob.

 

[honestlou]

Open carry...results in hospitalization for mental evaluation.

 

[JR1572]

Open carry=Epic Fail

JR1572

 

[Nolacopusmc]

And might drum up some business, too, yes?

Simply brilliant, guy... you got a marketing degree or something???

On THAT note... you really looking to open your own range?

.

Yes, seriously.

SHould have a better feeling about it by COB tomorrow if everything works out.

 

[Sin-ster]

Frankly, I'm more interested in the legality issue here-- and curious whether or not their laws are worded exactly like ours.

 

[Hitman]

/

 

[Nolacopusmc]

he was not a law abiding citizen.

Someone told him concealed means concealed and he thought it worked for OC and was a little wrong. Read why he got arrested.

 

[sraacke]

So an idiot attacks a Law Abiding citizen and then the Law Abiding citizen gets arrested??

Someone better get their check book out.

He broke the law. Looks like a good arrest to me.

 

[Speedlace]

Looks like the cops took his Wilderness belt too.

 

[Hitman]

Oops....comment retracted....

 

[LongGoneDays]

Only DEA agents are professional enough to unarm someone carrying illegally.

 

[Turbodog]

Well, he certainly got some attention.

Who? The guy eatin dinner or the the guy that attacked him?

 

[Turbodog]

he was not a law abiding citizen.

Correctomundo!

 

[dos gris]

I certainly am not going to hump THAT dog again... its like wrestling with a pig.

The pig likes it; and I get dirty.



.

Talk about mixed metaphors!!!

 

[Gus McCrae]

He obviously forgot to blade at a 45 degree angle and..... Well you know the rest.

 

[Tim67]

I think I read about this somewhere... Looking at he video I would have probably assumed the OCer was a cop. Shame he screwed up and became the target of a nutjob.

In EBR, I have occasionally seen officials in plainclothes carrying openly with no badge visible. If I remember correctly a lot of AG's office people do this on a regular basis.