Oldest C&R gun on BS.com?

[barnside]

I have a Finnish M91 with a 1900 date. Almost a twin.
I think my oldest shooter is a Allin Second Model trapdoor in 50/70 dated 1866. It was converted, probably by Bannerman, into a cadet. Never fired in anger.

 

[Ellis1958]

I have a 1776 Flintlock. Missing lock. .69 i think (greatly reduces the value). Post some pics when I can. It may be French, not sure.

Please do. I have a thing for muskets of that era. Proper period and correct replacement locks are available.

Athough it's a reporduction I have a Long Land Brown Bess that's just a joy to shoot. Since it is a reproduction it doesn't qualify for oldest C&R.

 

[Wolfgang1952]

Samuel Colt 3rd Model Dragoon sr# 1xxx0 made some time 1850. It has the cut outs for the shoulder stock. It was burned in my Great Grandmothers house around 1900. It is in about 25 percent condition. One of my Mothers younger brother tried to take it apart and buggered up all lost some of the screws. I replaced the hammer screw and barrel wedge. The wedge is not right. I would like to have it restored someday. Then I have an 1873 Springfield Trapdoor that I hunt with.

 

[flamatrix99]

Colt 1851 Navy pistol. It has been in my wife's family and passed down to us. From the looks of it it went through the Civil War but we do not know for sure.

 

[csbutton]

Very nice Colt Navy...my favorite gun of all time. If you can give me the serial number, I can tell you when it was made.

 

[sgt z]

this weapon is stamped 1776 on the lockworks and there is more script on the lock that is worn out and I can't read Dad said the smooth bore was about .72 to .76.

 

[WILDCATT]

Swiss 41

I have a swiss 41 they were sold in the 1920s I believe quite a few in the south as cheap hunting rifles.Rem made the ammo up to WW2.most of us are converting them to center fire.it so easy and it realy does not hurt them.as you can shoot either by simply dropping the rimrire pin in.there should be a spare pin in the butt stock. the cases are made out of 8 mm lebel or 348 win.and midsouthshooters sell lee dies.
the old colts can be restored with parts from DIXIE arms in TENN.most are original parts.

 

[Ellis1958]

this weapon is stamped 1776 on the lockworks and there is more script on the lock that is worn out and I can't read Dad said the smooth bore was about .72 to .76.

As best as I can tell it's a Belgium copy of an English piece. The key is the LEG cartouche on the stock.

Best info I've found online is here. http://www.tiffinohio.com/bilger/BFWP12.html

The worst part of these old flintlocks is that there were a bunch of manufacturers. Some made copies of other patterns. Some were subcontracted by the French or the Crown. Some were based on one pattern then altered locally to something else. Over the years parts from one were used on another. Only a true expert can decipher it all. I'm not him.

 

[my-rifle]

You guys should know that the C&R only can be used to buy guns built after 1898. Guns older than that are not considered "guns" by the ATF, so no license is required to buy them.

Having said that, I have an 1841-model percussion smoothbore in .69 caliber. Been eyeballing a Brown Bess for some months, but I just can't see cutting loose that kind of money.

 

[dwr461]

I have quite a few weapons from the 1940's and 1950's but nothing older anymore. I've been looking at these lately though.

http://www.ima-usa.com/index.php/cPath/261

I'm partial to the MkIV.

Dave

 

[Mr_Willson]

this

1859 sharps that still has some rounds....i dont think they would ever fire though

 

[my-rifle]

I have quite a few weapons from the 1940's and 1950's but nothing older anymore. I've been looking at these lately though.

http://www.ima-usa.com/index.php/cPath/261

I'm partial to the MkIV.

Dave

Thanks to Barnside, that insidious dude, I've bought about a dozen of these from IMA and their one-time partner company. The 1840's musket (see above) came out of that bunch, but I'm here to tell you it looked like an amphora from a Greek shipwreck when I got it. It took me months of work to get it a) functional and b) attractive. I don't regret buying it. To the contrary, I bought another one I was so happy to have the old girl, but expect a lot of work.

The Sniders are the best of the lot - relatively unused, and they clean up with a few hours' elbow grease.

The Gahendra-Henry's are next. They clean up well, but the screws are all hand-made, and the slots are chisel-cut, so they strip out easily. The Gahendras are also fairly unsafe having welded barrels instead of solid ones.

The long-lever Martini-Henrys are next as they were superseded quickly by the Lee-Metfords which IMA destroyed to sell in England. They have a long stock bolt that runs the length of the stock, and like all Martini-Henry's that bolt tends to rust and swell, splitting the wrist of the stock. Of the four English Martini-Henry's I got out of the Nepal cache, two had splits, and one I spent beaucoup on to get one that didn't have the split.

After that the P-1853 muskets are dog-tired, being rusted inside and out, and having zero finish on metal or wood. The wood on most of them has a major problem somewhere.

The Brunswicks appear to be nice, but as I said above, expect to have to clean, strip, and refinish the wood, and expect to have to remove copious fine and coarse rust from inside and outside the barrel and lock. I bought a spare parts Brunswick, to salvage some parts of the lock. That's how I saved mine.

I suggest you have a look at the Nepalese Ghurka Kukri knives. At $100 apiece you get a 100-year-old knife that can still cut a man clean from crown to sternum.

The IMA guns are really nice project guns, but I can't stress more - they will likely be a lot of work.

 

[dwr461]

Wow that's awesome My Rifle. I was actually partial to the sniders until I heard that the MkIV's supposed were in the best condition. Are shooting any of these old British birds?

Dave

 

[my-rifle]

I haven't shot any of mine. Here's the skinny on the Nepalese guns: Because the Nepalese didn't have deep-boring drills they couldn't drill their bores. They had to weld them. American firearm manufacturers reportedly abandoned this process, because it proved too unreliable and they walked away from a sizable R&D investment. Reports from people who've slugged the bores of the Nepalese guns report bores with irregular diameters. This is one of the main reasons for people not wanting to shoot the Nepalese guns. The word is that if you shoot a standard Martini-Henry round out of a Gahendra it may work fine, but the irregular bore could cause the round to hang up in the bore and split the welds.

The Nepalese had no choice, so they stuck with it. Lots of guys report shooting their Nepalese rifles (Gahendras, Sniders, Brunswicks, etc.) with light loads (65 grains of black powder) with no ill effects. I've read of only one split barrel, and I can't vouch for its authenticity. Because of the metallurgical superiority of the British guns, almost all people who shoot these old girls shoot the British ones.

 

[my-rifle]

Here's a great forum for these guns:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

and

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=d7b1c62b967e213bbc43d4df92b8e467

 

[shoalsfugro]

...the first "official" weapon of the US Armed Forces. This one was made around 1812 and is completely functional and could be fired safely.

I like this one, can you post a few more pics?

 

[LACamper]

Not the oldest but I've got a French Lebel revolver dated 1892. I need a few parts though... a cylinder hand and a new trigger mainly.

 

[barnside]

I just shot my Martini-Henry Mark IIs today. 480 grain bullets, backed by 85 grs. of black powder. At 50 yards, they more or less hit the middle of the target. They had that great black powder Ka-boooom, and the recoil was much less than I feared. In fact, the recoil was less than the VZ24 8mm I shot right after them.

I agree with Myrifle's assessment on the Nepal cache guns. I think one of the best deals is the unmarked untouched M-H Mk IIs, sold by both IMA-USA and Atlanta Cutlery for $350. The only difference is that the receiver side markings are either completely or partially gone. All other metal proof markings, and most of the wood markings are still there. Even without the complete receiver markings, I could still tell when and where they were made, and what arsenals they were shipped to. All have had great bores and internals.

I bought a box of Ammo from Gad Custom Reloading for about $40 bucks or so a box. He reloads the brass for about $20 a box.

I think they Nepal Martini-Henrys are a great deal right now.

 

[cajun 22]

I have an old L.C. Smith handed down by my grandfather. Will have to find out to look up the year of manufacture by serial number. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[dwr461]

If I'm able to purchase a M-H MK2 may I call on either Barnside or My rifle for help if I need it?

Dave