pet loads for 9mm in uspsa?

[returningliberty]

I just got my lone wolf barrel from my g34, and since I'm basically starting over from scratch with all new bullets and and a new barrel, I'm wondering what everyone else is using for their 9mm loads.

powders I'm experimenting with:
autocomp
HS-6
WSF

Bullets:
Bayou Bullets 125gr RN / 147gr FP.

trying to sit right around 27/28 power factor.
Since there's prolly a thousand years combined experience in reloading here, do you guys have any suggestions/ ideas to try?

(random question not related)
If my O.A.L. varies by +- 1.5/100th of an inch (but waaay within mag/chamber tolerance), is this something to worry about?

any help is always appreciated

 

[Vigilante Sniper]

Go to the reloading section, I have a few spread sheets I uploaded that will help you just do search for my name in the reloading section and you should see them. Autocomp is not a good powder for 9mm minor, HS6 is great for for max loads and accuracy, WSF is a good powder for 9mm and I would use that out of the 3 you have and load for a 130 power factor if you plan on shooting USPSA matches. You can load the 125 bayou bullets at 1.150 OAL and the 147's at 1.147 which works good for those bullets in your gun. For 125 Bayou start at 4.3 and work up to 4.7 gr of WSF. In my gun 4.3 is 127 pf and 4.7 is 135 pf.

 

[returningliberty]

Hey cool thanks. Ya I loaded up about 50 rds of autocomp (i just have so much of it) and around the same for HS-6 per load, and then considered exactly how much data i'd be pulling, and only loaded 10 rds of each WSF load. My lyman manual said to load the 147's @ 1.058", so that's what I've been using, but it does seem incredibly short for such a big bullet. I'm not even close to compressing the load though, so /shrug. I guess I'll see how they do tomorrow at the range.

Anyone wanna help crunch numbers?

(I think I may actually be able to use my statistics class for this, hopefully my prof will give me extra credit!)

Oh and one more thing, do you have any personal preference on primers? (I havent checked your spreadsheet yet, if it's there please disregard cause I'm gonna look at it in a few minutes). The federals I'm using right now are Waay soft, having a hard time gettign them seated properly in my auto primer.

 

[Sin-ster]

MG 124 JHP
4.15-ish grains of VV N320
1.160 OAL
Federal SPP
.376 crimp

130 PF out of my well worn G17. Ridiculously accurate. Feels like a squirt gun with the 13# recoil spring. No smoke, burns very clean. It is a bit loud-- like that really matters. Nothing even resembling a high pressure sign, even with the softest primers known to man.

I'd go longer with the OAL, if my mags could take it. The chamber definitely can. But that's one you REALLY need to figure out on your own, for whatever gun you're using. Obviously, the extra barrel you have and the fact that you're shooting lead will mean a different recipe in terms of charge and crimp alike. Your different boolit choice might require a shorter OAL as well.

But don't hug so close to 125, especially with powders that are sensitive to environmental change. Even though N320 is considered one of the most stable and consistent performers out there, I will probably bump up to 132 PF for the Gator, as I've heard that different chrono's can vary in readings by a TON.

 

[BayouSlide]

Been using 3.3 grs of Titegroup with Zero 147 gr. JHP at 1.112 for years in both a G34 and now STI Trojan. Low to mid 130s PF through the G34 at around 10 match chronos ...IIRC 132 was the lowest, 136 was highest PF registered. In my experience, I found going below a 132 PF made the slide sluggish, raised the risk of an occasional malfunction and started to adversely affect my timing. 13# ISMI in the G34, 11# ISMI in the Trojan.

 

[FD807]

135gr Bayou Bullet
3.5gr VVN320
OAL 1.13
Out of my Glock34 with a Storm Lake barrel makes 131pf

 

[Ellis1958]

147gr Montana Gold CMJ
3.6gr VV N320
1.150" OAL
Winchester SP primer
Winchester brass

SD 10.9
ES 31.4

131.5 PF as tested at the 2011 Gator Classic. 130.4 PF out of my chrono from data 2 years ago.
100% reliable out of a Springfield XD-9 Tactical.

 

[jdphotoguy]

Caliber: 9mm
Powder: 3.5gr Vihtavuori N320
Bullet: 147gr Precision Bullets
Case: Winchester
Primer: Winchester Small Pistol
OAL: 1.141

Out of my M&P 9L this yields around a 135 power factor.

 

[Sin-ster]

131.5 PF as tested at the 2011 Gator Classic. 130.4 PF out of my chrono from data 2 years ago.
100% reliable out of a Springfield XD-9 Tactical.

I chrono'd hotter than expected yesterday as well. First shot through the chrono was ~15 FPS higher than I'd ever seen it before. 2nd was almost identical to my Hi, 3rd was right where I expected it to be.

And I use the same CEDs they had running. Although I'm guessing the dark box/IR combo had something to do with it. I suppose it's more accurate than the standard sunlight/shades. Since we're both using MG's, it could be the glitter off that bright brass jacket throws the measurement a little bit.

 

[BayouSlide]

Since we're both using MG's, it could be the glitter off that bright brass jacket throws the measurement a little bit.

I see the same with MG but not with Zeros and I also would bet it has to do with the reflectivity affecting readings that are not IR-based.

 

[Sin-ster]

I see the same with MG but not with Zeros and I also would bet it has to do with the reflectivity affecting readings that are not IR-based.

I knew I was smart.

 

[returningliberty]

Here's another question. I'm using a lee turret press and my oal varies (I changed dies cause I though that might be the issue, but no) from 1.095-1.104 (set it 1.10)
I'm using a bayou bullet 125gr RN

When it seats low you can actually feel a little *clunk* in the press. Fairly sure this isn't normal, but it doesn't seem to affect accuracy at all.

 

[Ellis1958]

I chrono'd hotter than expected yesterday as well. First shot through the chrono was ~15 FPS higher than I'd ever seen it before. 2nd was almost identical to my Hi, 3rd was right where I expected it to be.

And I use the same CEDs they had running. Although I'm guessing the dark box/IR combo had something to do with it. I suppose it's more accurate than the standard sunlight/shades. Since we're both using MG's, it could be the glitter off that bright brass jacket throws the measurement a little bit.

My chrono data had a range from 128.0 to 132.6 so 131.5 was well within my normal range.

My chrono is a CED with IR screens in a coffin (wood box). Went that direction to get more accurate data and to be more in line with what the major matches used. Plus it's good for at least one "What the hell is that?" question at the range.

With the IR screens nothing outside the box affects when the timers trip. Sun, clouds, bullet jacket, even rain. Yes, I've chrono'd in the rain. None of it is an issue. If you really wanted to you could chrono at midnight.

As for the slight drifting, not a big deal and normal. Once when testing .45acp loads I shot 30 rounds for a 171.8pf average. Went back the next day for further testing of other loads. Same gun, same ammo loaded the same day, same chrono, same place, etc etc. Only thing different was that is was 24 hours later. Shot 30 rounds for a 172.8pf average. Who knows why the change.

As an FYI on my load mentioned above, added ES and SD info.

 

[Sin-ster]

My ES is 26, my SD is 7. That doesn't leave a lot of room for surprises. But I'd say your coffin/IR set up is the reason it was within your expected norms.

I planned on seeing no higher than 130 PF, and ended up 130.9. Certainly not "way outside" the norms, but definitely something I noticed.

I tested that lot in 25 round segments, at least 3 different times. They were within 1 FPS of each other on the Average and ES, and always 7 SD. Consistency plus.

I'll know in the future that the MG's chrono hotter if there's a coffin in use. Not like 1 PF is worth tinkering over, though.

 

[Sin-ster]

Here's another question. I'm using a lee turret press and my oal varies (I changed dies cause I though that might be the issue, but no) from 1.095-1.104 (set it 1.10)
I'm using a bayou bullet 125gr RN

When it seats low you can actually feel a little *clunk* in the press. Fairly sure this isn't normal, but it doesn't seem to affect accuracy at all.

There's several things that could account for your reported issues, so it'll be a process of elimination to figure out the direct cause.

Don't rule out the press itself. I'm not familiar with the Lee, so I can't speak to what you should expect.
Don't rule out the seating die, although honestly, I'd imagine a 125 RN would do fine with your average stem. That said-- Redding Competition FTW.
On my 650, the greatest source of OAL variation came when I was using too much or too little bell. My equipment set up is rather picky on this point; some trial and error got it down perfectly. Now, my ES is roughly .004, with an SD closer to .0015-- and it's all a result of brass and bullet inconsistencies.
You may want to smooth out the motion of your stroke as well. Do you find that when you get into a good rhythm, the variations shrink?

The "clunk" you report makes me believe it's almost certainly an equipment related issue. It may be a hiccup in the downstroke, or it may be the seating stem engaging the ogive in a funky manner.

There are probably other possible causes, but those are the ones I have encountered and heard of in the past.

All of that said, we're not shooting bullseye. Provided they feed well and don't cause any problematic pressure spikes/drops or accuracy issues, you really don't have a problem on your hands. If you're OCD like me, though... it'll drive you nuts, I know!

 

[returningliberty]

There's several things that could account for your reported issues, so it'll be a process of elimination to figure out the direct cause.

Don't rule out the press itself. I'm not familiar with the Lee, so I can't speak to what you should expect.
Don't rule out the seating die, although honestly, I'd imagine a 125 RN would do fine with your average stem. That said-- Redding Competition FTW.
On my 650, the greatest source of OAL variation came when I was using too much or too little bell. My equipment set up is rather picky on this point; some trial and error got it down perfectly. Now, my ES is roughly .004, with an SD closer to .0015-- and it's all a result of brass and bullet inconsistencies.
You may want to smooth out the motion of your stroke as well. Do you find that when you get into a good rhythm, the variations shrink?

The "clunk" you report makes me believe it's almost certainly an equipment related issue. It may be a hiccup in the downstroke, or it may be the seating stem engaging the ogive in a funky manner.

There are probably other possible causes, but those are the ones I have encountered and heard of in the past.

All of that said, we're not shooting bullseye. Provided they feed well and don't cause any problematic pressure spikes/drops or accuracy issues, you really don't have a problem on your hands. If you're OCD like me, though... it'll drive you nuts, I know!

It is driving me nuts, and I just loaded a small batch of .223 last night. No clunk feel, so I'm fairly certain That part is the bullet, smooth bullets with no canalure (spelling and if that's not the right word the ring depressions around the lead bullets) don't give my a clunk.
The +-.005 variation in seat depth is still there with different dies, turret, and caliber. I'm beginning to think it's my press. My motion is as consistent as I can be. I might have to get away from my little hundred dollar press.

 

[scooterj]

When it seats low you can actually feel a little *clunk* in the press. Fairly sure this isn't normal, but it doesn't seem to affect accuracy at all.

Is your press the turret or the Pro1000 progressive? In either case, the "clunk" is the press "camming over", which is desired on the resizing station.

 

[scooterj]

It is driving me nuts, and I just loaded a small batch of .223 last night. No clunk feel, so I'm fairly certain That part is the bullet, smooth bullets with no canalure (spelling and if that's not the right word the ring depressions around the lead bullets) don't give my a clunk.
The +-.005 variation in seat depth is still there with different dies, turret, and caliber. I'm beginning to think it's my press. My motion is as consistent as I can be. I might have to get away from my little hundred dollar press.

It's the die settings. Your variations are no reason to get upset. and if you get good results, it doesn't matter if you cam over or not, as long as it's the samefor each caliber.

 

[returningliberty]

It's the die settings. Your variations are no reason to get upset. and if you get good results, it doesn't matter if you cam over or not, as long as it's the samefor each caliber.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean since it doesn't make that feel when you raise the ram fully with no dies. Also, I follow directions on the die settings, so in not sure where I could have gone wrong. I just don't know

 

[scooterj]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean since it doesn't make that feel when you raise the ram fully with no dies. Also, I follow directions on the die settings, so in not sure where I could have gone wrong. I just don't know

When setting the die, raise the ram to the top. Screw the resizing die down til it touches the shell plate or shell holder. Lower the ram and turn the die in another 1/4 turn then lock it. You should feel the clunk without any brass inserted. Watch the linkage when you feel the clunk and you should understand what camming over means. I'm terrible trying to explain things with my fingers.