Production vs. Limited Category

[ChiefShooter]

I new to USPSA and I am re-evaluating which category to compete in. I have been shooting Production with my Glock 17. I plan to continue shooting 9mm and recently purchased a G34. I do not currently plan any major gun alterations but would consider moving to Limited for the high capacity magazines and for the change in limitations to where I wear my magazines. Due to the scoring limitations is it best to stay in Production or is there any advantage to moving to Limited for these reasons? Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Guate_shooter]

I would move up to Limited BUT with a setup that allows you to be scored mayor instead of minor, you get penalized less that way and still have full advantage of the high cap mags and "unlimited" gear.

 

[henry]

In Production division, everyone in that division is scored
"minor" caliber, if you shoot in "limited" you will still be scored "minor" caliber and you will be competing against some guns that will be scored "major" caliber which gains them one point per shot on the target outside the "A" zone. Something to think about if you cannot keep most of your shots inside the "A" zone on the target. "A" zones are worth 5 points in both "minor" and "major" divisions.
I have shot my G17 in "limited" division with moderate success, but you have to keep them in the "A" zone on the targets.

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

The G34 is the king in production division. There is no advantage to running it in limited or limited 10.

 

[James Cannon]

Been thinking over this myself, as I was wanting to run my M&P9 in a manner that is more "real world" to me, as it's my carry weapon. Plus I goofed and wasn't thinking about USPSA rules at all, and scratched up the frame a bit where my trigger finger goes when 'at ready' / 'safe' for ... well really it was for no damn reason except "everyone else was, when they stippled their gun" lol.

@henry : I was not aware just what advantage is gained in the major vs minor - so if that pretty much sums it up, that's cool. Easy to remember, and clear. I will have to read the rules more closely to wrap my head around it. However, I would prefer to take my time and shoot nothing but As and let my time increase after accuracy.... IDEALLY... lol. So would I be correct in assuming that if a guy with a .45 and I, with my 9, shoot nothing but As on a stage - we'd have the same score before time is factored in? But if we shoot 50% B, 50% A - he would have a score much higher because he is penalized less for the Bs?

Sorry if this is hijacking your post, OP - it seemed relevant to the topic..

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

@henry : I was not aware just what advantage is gained in the major vs minor - so if that pretty much sums it up, that's cool. Easy to remember, and clear. I will have to read the rules more closely to wrap my head around it. However, I would prefer to take my time and shoot nothing but As and let my time increase after accuracy.... IDEALLY... lol. So would I be correct in assuming that if a guy with a .45 and I, with my 9, shoot nothing but As on a stage - we'd have the same score before time is factored in? But if we shoot 50% B, 50% A - he would have a score much higher because he is penalized less for the Bs?

You got it. If you shoot nothing but A's it doesn't matter that the 9mm is minor they all score 5 points for A's. Here is a breakdown of how the USPSA scoring breaks down for major and minor.

Major
A-5
B-4
C-4
D-2

Minor
A-5
B-3
C-3
D-1

 

[James Cannon]

Thank you so much.

 

[nickatnite]

The G34 is the king in production division. There is no advantage to running it in limited or limited 10.

Not 100% true anymore..
I'd recognize CZ and also the S&W M&P pistols. The match that we shot at this weekend in Texas, the top guys (GM Shooters) were shooting M&P's. BJ Norris of Team S&W was one of them.

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

Not 100% true anymore..
I'd recognize CZ and also the S&W M&P pistols. The match that we shot at this weekend in Texas, the top guys (GM Shooters) were shooting M&P's. BJ Norris of Team S&W was one of them.

The CZ is very popular in IPSC overseas. The ability to have a much better trigger in the gun is the main reason. The top GM guys at this weekend match where likely sponsored by S&W which means they get free guns. The M&P is gaining ground but at last years nationals it was 3:1 in favor of the all mighty Glock. I suspect that number will continue to shrink but the Glock IS still the king.

I can't uplaod a an Excel File so here is a link to my forum with the 2009 & 2010 USPSA Nationals Equipement Surveys.

USPSA Nationals Equipement Survey

 

[ChiefShooter]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I think I will stay in Production with the G34 for now.

 

[nickatnite]

The top GM guys at this weekend match where likely sponsored by S&W which means they get free guns.

The only GM sponsored shooter was BJ Norris. We had several other GM shooters in our squad (Yong Le from Seattle) and he was a CZ shooter, but got tired of it breaking on him, so he switched to the S&W. Also Antoine (I can't recall his last name right now) was a Master in our class shooting a S&W.

The ratio at the Texas Championship match was clearly in favor of Smith & Wesson. I would be willing to say that the tide HAS turned in favor of the Smith...

Even more so now that S&W has the 40 pro.

 

[spanky]

Kale shoots a CZ

 

[nickatnite]

Kale shoots a CZ

Was that the ONLY one that didn't have an issue?

 

[enutees]

Was that the ONLY one that didn't have an issue?

Mine ran the whole match. I had an issue the week before and Saturday night but both were fixed and my gun ran great. I blew a stage but that is a different story.

 

[BayouSlide]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I think I will stay in Production with the G34 for now.

Good plan. Stick with Production unless you are ready to to sink some serious change into a .40S&W Limited gun/mags/gear in the STI/SVI platform.

 

[CliffCargill]

I've shot both the Glock and CZ in Production.

Glock=

More user friendly, esp for the new shooter.
More gun smiths work on them and you can do things like drop a Vanek trigger kit in.
A ton of after market parts are out there.
Glocks seemingly run forever without breaking.
There's always a friend you can borrow one from if you should have a problem.

CZ Shadow=

A lot more weight out front in the Shadow's frame...it handles very well.
Great double action pull for the first shot.
Even better (awesome) single action trigger pull.
Will bust any primer.
Very tapered mags.

They DO break, You have to keep up with round counts. I've broken a rear sight, 2 slide stops, a trigger return spring, an extractor and worn out a mag release spring. I now know when what to look for and when (round count) to replace them.

The CZ fits better in my hands than the Glock, but if someone is new to the game and doesn't want to invest the time sending a CZ off and working out the bugs, then go for the Glock.

I recently had Matt Mink build a Shadow for one of my students after meeting him at Nationlas in Vegas. Matt finished 2nd w/o winning a stage. The gun is perfect but now the round count clock started ticking and it will be a matter of time before it will have to have the above mentioned parts.

All that said...Im sticking to CZ for now!

Hope this helps.

Cliff