Question about the marketplace

[AustinBR]

Further, I'll quote part of the message from the seller:

"I initially told the prospective purchaser that the research I was seeing indicated the item was selling for $675, as I was trying to do research without the gun in front of me. He responded: "And I do see they go around 675, is that your asking price as well?" Subsequently, I learned that the item I had researched was not the exact item I had for sale, which the law considers a "mistake of fact". So, either the Buyer was similarly mistaken as to the exact item or he was intentionally misleading me about the selling prices he was seeing for the item, when he said he also saw this item selling for $675. The item has been selling for $1400 and $1750 on gunbroker - as a show of good faith, I offered the item for $1,000, which is still significantly less than the market price. In response, he chose to post negative feedback, despite the fact Louisiana law would hold that we never had a binding agreement due to the mistake of fact by one or both of us."

If the potential buyer wants to repost neutral feedback, I'm okay with it. This isn't a case of someone breaking site rules or someone being a jerk in the marketplace. It's an example of one or both parties not knowing what was being sold and the sale being canceled as a result of that.

 

[hoopstar789]

Further, I'll quote part of the message from the seller:

"I initially told the prospective purchaser that the research I was seeing indicated the item was selling for $675, as I was trying to do research without the gun in front of me. He responded: "And I do see they go around 675, is that your asking price as well?" Subsequently, I learned that the item I had researched was not the exact item I had for sale, which the law considers a "mistake of fact". So, either the Buyer was similarly mistaken as to the exact item or he was intentionally misleading me about the selling prices he was seeing for the item, when he said he also saw this item selling for $675. The item has been selling for $1400 and $1750 on gunbroker - as a show of good faith, I offered the item for $1,000, which is still significantly less than the market price. In response, he chose to post negative feedback, despite the fact Louisiana law would hold that we never had a binding agreement due to the mistake of fact by one or both of us."

If the potential buyer wants to repost neutral feedback, I'm okay with it. This isn't a case of someone breaking site rules or someone being a jerk in the marketplace. It's an example of one or both parties not knowing what was being sold and the sale being canceled as a result of that.

So let me clarify, I can either unknowingly or knowingly list something at a price I have mistakenly listed it at, then after agreeing, though not a legal contract agreement like Louisiana Law, I can jack it up to what I think is fair and just use, I didn't research what I had beforehand, and it is not violating any rules. This is correct? And if a potential buyer doesn't agree with my decision they are not allowed to post a negative feedback?

 

[Magdump]

Also and to answer you're question. If I agree to someone a price and a date I stick with it, it's my job to research what I'm selling and after agreeing it should be final. If I lose money because I was dumb enough to just agree to a sale without researching the market value then i just take a loss. maybe I'm just a man of morals. Anyway like I said delete this account and continue to appease the site sponsors.

There are actually laws that protect the seller in the event that they are dumb enough to sell something of greater value than they know. I’m sure an attorney can chime in here. The law protects the seller from being relieved of something of greater value than they are aware of, and while the difference has to be pretty great (or so I remember) the seller has a certain amount of time to reclaim the item, per the statute, at the selling price. I only know about this because it happened to a teacher of mine in high school and he did indeed have to sell the item back. The elderly woman’s attorney, hired by her family member, won an easy case by citing this law and stating that the teacher had taken advantage of her ignorance about the item. Not saying that buying a Glock 19 NIB for $350 when someone would gladly pay 400-450 applies here, but if there’s a law protecting someone from being relieved of property for less than fair value, who’s more in the wrong in the case you mention? Not trying to incite a riot, but speaking of honor, morals and being fair...
It’s one thing to have quick cash to bail out a desperate seller, but holding your peace until you close a deal that you know is a steal (wonder why they call it that?) is another.

 

[340six]

like when guys out themselves in a thread such as this.
It lets myself and others know who they are.
Any buyers who woukd take advantage of an uninformed seller and cheat them is no better than the members who gouge others when things,are in short supply

 

[AustinBR]

So let me clarify, I can either unknowingly or knowingly list something at a price I have mistakenly listed it at, then after agreeing, though not a legal contract agreement like Louisiana Law, I can jack it up to what I think is fair and just use, I didn't research what I had beforehand, and it is not violating any rules. This is correct? And if a potential buyer doesn't agree with my decision they are not allowed to post a negative feedback?

Let me use a hypothetical example or two to clarify:

Seller inherits a Scar 16 from his father. He sees that it shoots a .223 and knows that a lot of ARs go for $500 used. He decides to post it for $500 and someone quickly says "Hell yeah man, I'll take it for $500." Seller agrees. Then someone PMs the seller and says dude, why are you selling that for $500 when you could get $2000 for it? The buyer looks on gunbroker or consults a friend and realizes his error (mistake of fact) and quickly changes the price and apologizes to the potential buyer. The buyer could have gotten a good deal, but should be understanding when realizing that the seller didn't know what they had. At that point, trying to force the seller to complete the sale or say negative things about him really isn't fair as it was an honest mistake and nothing egregious.

Conversely, a seller has a Scar 16 and posts a for sale ad for $1200 and gets a bunch of PMs from people interested. He know's it's worth in the $2000s, but really is cool accepting $1800 for it. He intended on using the cost as a bait and switch and never changes the ad. This is not okay and is something that negative feedback is appropriate for. It is also something that would be enough to get someone banned if it was egregious enough (like a brand new member coming here to do it).

In our case, when the seller realized his error, he, from my understanding, immediately posted the correct dollar amount on the forum. He was truly not aware of the original value and could not sell it for that much of a loss.

There are actually laws that protect the seller in the event that they are dumb enough to sell something of greater value than they know. I’m sure an attorney can chime in here. The law protects the seller from being relieved of something of greater value than they are aware of, and while the difference has to be pretty great (or so I remember) the seller has a certain amount of time to reclaim the item, per the statute, at the selling price. I only know about this because it happened to a teacher of mine in high school and he did indeed have to sell the item back. The elderly woman’s attorney, hired by her family member, won an easy case by citing this law and stating that the teacher had taken advantage of her ignorance about the item. Not saying that buying a Glock 19 NIB for $350 when someone would gladly pay 400-450 applies here, but if there’s a law protecting someone from being relieved of property for less than fair value, who’s more in the wrong in the case you mention? Not trying to incite a riot, but speaking of honor, morals and being fair...
It’s one thing to have quick cash to bail out a desperate seller, but holding your peace until you close a deal that you know is a steal (wonder why they call it that?) is another.

You are very correct. While it is legal to buy something at a loss for the seller, it is illegal if one party knows something that materially changes the value of the item. For example:

Seller John Doe has a beautiful gold ring that he is selling for $7500. John Doe knows that the ring is only coated in gold and is really only worth $500. Buyer thinks ring is real and pays John $7500 for it. John broke the law.

Now, if the buyer, Bob, then resells the ring for $7000 to Amy, in order to fund the purchase of a crate of peach-rings and snickers bars, and he still doesn't know the ring is fake, he hasn't committed a crime.

In our case, I'm not sure if Hoopstar thought he was just getting a really good deal and truly thought the item was worth the original selling price. If he looked it up, saw that it's normally selling for nearly 3x the price, and then confirms to the seller that the low price is correct, that's not okay.

 

[AustinBR]

So let me clarify, I can either unknowingly or knowingly list something at a price I have mistakenly listed it at, then after agreeing, though not a legal contract agreement like Louisiana Law, I can jack it up to what I think is fair and just use, I didn't research what I had beforehand, and it is not violating any rules. This is correct? And if a potential buyer doesn't agree with my decision they are not allowed to post a negative feedback?

In short, to add to my other answer, it comes down to intent:

-If you intend on doing a bait and switch, no, that's not okay.
-If you realize that you didn't know what you were selling, originally, and then have to rescind a sale and change the ad to reflect the proper price, that's fine.

First case = negative feedback + potential for ban
Second case = honest mistake...possible neutral feedback.

Again, if you feel that the seller really did something wrong, I have no problem with you leaving feedback again at neutral and you detailing out what happened so other users can see. I know for a fact that the guy you were dealing with is a stand-up dude who has/had no intention of screwing you or any member of the site over.

If you feel wronged by this, I do apologize at it's surely not the intention or the case. We do not treat anyone specially here, even if they are a site sponsor. As I said, I don't get a dime from people buying ad packages, so I have no incentive to treat anyone any differently, lol.

 

[twinin]

What brought this topic up? Was it a recent Beretta?

 

[340six]

What brought this topic up? Was it a recent Beretta?

A member who has Sour Grapes over the fact that;
A uninformed seller was informed and he was unable to take advantage.
This is not Gunbroker. eBay or another venue of that type
Posting PMed or I will take it in thread does not win you the item for sale.
Weather I am a buyer or seller up to the point that cash or items has changed hands you have the option to bow out for any reason.
I know if I show up and am simply uncoftable with the sale I should have the option to no go on with it.
Any normal person would understand that.

 

[MALIBU12]

Or you can do your research and list the price you want , or are the buyers supposed to list the sellers items and set the price before the they buy them?

And the seller owns a gun store ......lol good luck .

 

[hoopstar789]

1. Me and both the seller both saw the going rate for what we agreed on gunbroker. So both of us were uninformed
2. Nobody is arguing about the legality of what happened.
3. Just so there is no more confusion I am simply just stating I believe once an agreement is met, morally not legally, MORALLY for the ones who can't read, the deal should be honored whether you lose money or not,
4. Every site I deal on (with the exception of this site which I have found out today) it is against their community rules to go back on a deal generally if it is unreasonable including not knowing what you really have.
5. And yes, if I made an agreement and lose money, which I have before, I would still honor it. Not saying you should or shouldn't. I'm just stating I wouldn't deal with you personally since you are not a man of you're word.

 

[hoopstar789]

A member who has Sour Grapes over the fact that;
A uninformed seller was informed and he was unable to take advantage.
This is not Gunbroker. eBay or another venue of that type
Posting PMed or I will take it in thread does not win you the item for sale.
Weather I am a buyer or seller up to the point that cash or items has changed hands you have the option to bow out for any reason.
I know if I show up and am simply uncoftable with the sale I should have the option to no go on with it.
Any normal person would understand that.

And who are you exactly? Do you know the facts and circumstances of what happened? Ok Boomer

 

[DAVE_M]

I am not required to sell to anyone on this site.
I list ads on multiple forums.
If someone messages me off of the forum or in a PM, that’s okay.
Posting in my thread does not give you dibbs.
I would rather someone PM me than post in my thread.

I’ve never had anyone get upset about it.

 

[hoopstar789]

I am not required to sell to anyone on this site.
I list ads on multiple forums.
If someone messages me off of the forum or in a PM, that’s okay.
Posting in my thread does not give you dibbs.
I would rather someone PM me than post in my thread.

I’ve never had anyone get upset about it.

And rightfully so, I couldn't agree with you more, the seller should be able to sell to whomever and whenever.

 

[340six]

Or you can do your research and list the price you want , or are the buyers supposed to list the sellers items and set the price before the they buy them?

And the seller owns a gun store ......lol good luck .

So so your moral standard is to take advantage of the uninformed?

 

[Bosco]

like when guys out themselves in a thread such as this.
It lets myself and others know who they are.
Any buyers who woukd take advantage of an uninformed seller and cheat them is no better than the members who gouge others when things,are in short supply

This whole thing reminds me of being a teenager working at a horrible place called Gametrader. These grown ass men would prey on children buying their super rare games for $20 store credit and then throw the games on eBay for hundreds. When the parents would come in a few days later demanding the game back the adults would act like babies getting so mad that they weren't able to rip someone off.

This is kind of behavior deeply saddens me. When I first joined Bayou Shooter it was a community of people who shared a common hobby. But these days, it seems to be a lot of people looking to score a deal in the marketplace and then going full crybaby when they didn't get a chance to rip someone off.

 

[340six]

And the seller owns a gun store ......lol good luck oh and on that statement alone he can and should retain the right to not sell to you are anyone else.
They even have the Law that says so.
MR .Sour Grapes.

 

[AustinBR]

1. Me and both the seller both saw the going rate for what we agreed on gunbroker. So both of us were uninformed
2. Nobody is arguing about the legality of what happened.
3. Just so there is no more confusion I am simply just stating I believe once an agreement is met, morally not legally, MORALLY for the ones who can't read, the deal should be honored whether you lose money or not,
4. Every site I deal on (with the exception of this site which I have found out today) it is against their community rules to go back on a deal generally if it is unreasonable including not knowing what you really have.
5. And yes, if I made an agreement and lose money, which I have before, I would still honor it. Not saying you should or shouldn't. I'm just stating I wouldn't deal with you personally since you are not a man of you're word.

I generally agree that a deal is a deal, but sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that pop up. In an instance where one truly messes up on the value of an item, I think that its morally acceptable to back off of an agreed upon price.

As for site rules, we can't make a rule forcing people to honor deals. Sometimes **** truly comes up that can force a sale to have to stop. In this case, you both didn't know the value. If both the buyer and the seller are mistaken, why should one party be materially at a loss due to the mistake? I don't think that's a fair expectation. Further, I don't get how you can morally want to hold a guy towards a deal where he made an honest mistake. It makes more sense to be understanding that he goofed up and either agree to the fair market value of the item or move forward instead of causing a stink about it.

Again, I am sorry that you didn't get the item that you wanted at an absolute steal, but from a site standards perspective, this is very rare occurence where both parties had a mistake of value. We can't bake something into the rules that would cover something like this.

But, for the sake of discussion, what would you have me do? I'd like to keep everyone happy and create an environment that is mutually beneficial for everyone in the greater shooting community.

 

[AustinBR]

This whole thing reminds me of being a teenager working at a horrible place called Gametrader. These grown ass men would prey on children buying their super rare games for $20 store credit and then throw the games on eBay for hundreds. When the parents would come in a few days later demanding the game back the adults would act like babies getting so mad that they weren't able to rip someone off.

This is kind of behavior deeply saddens me. When I first joined Bayou Shooter it was a community of people who shared a common hobby. But these days, it seems to be a lot of people looking to score a deal in the marketplace and then going full crybaby when they didn't get a chance to rip someone off.

I disagree, we don't support or allow this type of behavior. One offs occur, but it is very rare. If it's happening and I am not aware, please bring it up. We don't tolerate people perpetrating scams or any type of fraud.

 

[hoopstar789]

Look what is done is done and let's leave it at that.

 

[DAVE_M]

Magdump started this thread, but it evolved into someone wanting to have their account removed and someone else saying they had a bad deal?

What’s going on?