Record Keeping

[swampfoxx]

Q11: What happens to the data provided on Form 4473?
Completed Forms 4473 are retained by the Federal firearms licensee (FFL). ATF does not, and never has, maintained an archive or other information repository on the race or ethnicity of firearm purchasers or licensees, and it has no intention to do so in the future. ATF may inspect individual Forms 4473 containing personally identifying information held by FFLs only for limited regulatory or law enforcement functions-specifically, during inspections, and in the course of investigations (for example, when tracing firearms linked to individual criminal investigations). Similarly, the FFL may use the demographic data to ensure proper identification or facilitate the background check process. There are some limited circumstances – for example when an FFL goes out of business – under which the Forms 4473 or information contained thereon is provided to ATF as required by statute. Even under these limited circumstances, ATF does not aggregate or centralize the demographic information contained on the form.

If you believe that, I have some oceanfront land in Phoenix that I will sell you real cheap.

 

[whitsend]

If you believe that, I have some oceanfront land in Phoenix that I will sell you real cheap.

Did you read the article posted by JC above?
It is definitely slanted toward the anit gunner bias, but very informative.

http://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns

 

[bigtattoo79]

Ah yes! A boating accident! Why didn't I think of that?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL.

 

[Whitebread]

Did you read the article posted by JC above?
It is definitely slanted toward the anit gunner bias, but very informative.

http://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns

I only glanced at that article but it seems to be making a simular point to the one I made a month or three ago. Even with all the data collected its gonna be pretty hard for them to be effective in a "collection effort".

 

[whitsend]

I only glanced at that article but it seems to be making a simular point to the one I made a month or three ago. Even with all the data collected its gonna be pretty hard for them to be effective in a "collection effort".

Exactly.
They are not allowed by current law to have any of the information in a searchable database.
Mostly it is on microfilm. They are starting to scan it to PDF, but they "can't" make the text searchable, they have to scan it as an image.

 

[Whitebread]

Exactly.
They are not allowed by current law to have any of the information in a searchable database.
Mostly it is on microfilm. They are starting to scan it to PDF, but they "can't" make the text searchable, they have to scan it as an image.

And folks this is why we continue to fund the NRA even when they seem to be a bunch of money grubbing douches. They have our backs anx if it were not for them whatching the dirtbags in DC like hawks we would have already lost that battle.

 

[Gator 45/70]

The Gmen track everything you do,Probably a dozen on here at any given time, Taking notes!

 

[RG43]

The Gmen track everything you do,Probably a dozen on here at any given time, Taking notes!

If so, I'll bet they find all of this very amusing, the fact it's their job to read our comments. In reality, it may all be getting tagged in some CIA super computer somewhere, but I'd think it's unlikely anyone is actually sitting there paying attention to what we are saying here.

 

[drmweaver2]

Without proof of purchase can NOLA still confiscate your firearms?

Think Hurricane Katrina.... hundreds of perfectly legal guns were confiscated...if not thousands. Some were heirlooms, others just good ole boy hunting weapons, even a championship competition piece I heard. Local, state and Federal police/agents and National Guardsmen literally walked into homes and took them without warrants or any other due process... sometimes without giving receipts though that was not the norm.

The storage of these weapons and care was horrible - toss them in the back of a big rig trailer and lock the door... no padding, no humidity control, no second thought (as in "if this were my weapon, I'd take care of it rather than just throw it on a junk pile"). If you don't believe me, I think one of the local TV stations (channel 4/WWL TV?) did a story on it.

So, trying to retrieve a lost record or worried about who has the original submitted form? Fuggedaboudit. If they have records that you have a weapon or you register it and create a record, it's just the first step in them eventually trying to confiscate it - I don't care what the new NOLA law says. Screw 'em. They can't have mine and I won't help them creae a record of me having it. Period. A-R-dit dit, the end.

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[dk.easterly]

Think Hurricane Katrina.... hundreds of perfectly legal guns were confiscated...if not thousands. Some were heirlooms, others just good ole boy hunting weapons, even a championship competition piece I heard. Local, state and Federal police/agents and National Guardsmen literally walked into homes and took them without warrants or any other due process... sometimes without giving receipts though that was not the norm.

The storage of these weapons and care was horrible - toss them in the back of a big rig trailer and lock the door... no padding, no humidity control, no second thought (as in "if this were my weapon, I'd take care of it rather than just throw it on a junk pile"). If you don't believe me, I think one of the local TV stations (channel 4/WWL TV?) did a story on it.

So, trying to retrieve a lost record or worried about who has the original submitted form? Fuggedaboudit. If they have records that you have a weapon or you register it and create a record, it's just the first step in them eventually trying to confiscate it - I don't care what the new NOLA law says. Screw 'em. They can't have mine and I won't help them creae a record of me having it. Period. A-R-dit dit, the end.

Just my 2 cents worth...

I'm talking receipts.

 

[BadEye]

What joke. I guess I didn't see it coming. (BadEye...remember?) Some of you guys missed the point that most of my guns are older than you are. Background checks? What up wit dat? I have my receipts and why would I be required to keep them. I keep them because I never throw anything away. When the gun stores went under I mean by 6 to 9 feet of Katrina water.
All my buys were fill out a form, check all the yes...or its it no boxes sign & pay. Get ammo too while you are there and away I went.

 

[BadEye]

I live in Metairie not New Orleans and I highly recommend any body thinking about going to New Orleans to be well armed. drmweaver2 you are getting close to what I am thinking. I don't think ATF, or local/state police would still have records of my guns. I want to remain under the radar. I haven't registered any weapons or had any background checks run on me. And I want to keep it this way because I think it will just open up a case of worms. I really want a Concealed carry permit but don't want to enter the "system". I've waited this long I can wait till Trump gets elected to be sure it's ok.
I'm getting tired of open carrying this Thompson with a 100 round drum, it's pretty heavy. Nobody has ever messed with me thought.

 

[alpinehyperlite]

If so, I'll bet they find all of this very amusing, the fact it's their job to read our comments. In reality, it may all be getting tagged in some CIA super computer somewhere, but I'd think it's unlikely anyone is actually sitting there paying attention to what we are saying here.

You really dont think that there are reps from all kinds of different agencies monitoring this and all other gun forums on the internet? lol. Two totally opposite ends of the spectrum in here. Guys like you who have no idea about whats going on, and people like the OP who need to take off the tin foil sombrero and relax a lil bit. lol

 

[jmcrawf1]

I live in Metairie not New Orleans and I highly recommend any body thinking about going to New Orleans to be well armed. drmweaver2 you are getting close to what I am thinking. I don't think ATF, or local/state police would still have records of my guns. I want to remain under the radar. I haven't registered any weapons or had any background checks run on me. And I want to keep it this way because I think it will just open up a case of worms. I really want a Concealed carry permit but don't want to enter the "system". I've waited this long I can wait till Trump gets elected to be sure it's ok.
I'm getting tired of open carrying this Thompson with a 100 round drum, it's pretty heavy. Nobody has ever messed with me thought.

 

[BadEye]

Yes, serious and asking real questions. I thought this forum would have knowledgeable members and it does have some. I like the humour a lot, it's good. I look forward to exchanging comic material with you people but now I need help figuring out my best options.
Yes, serious

 

[JBP55]

Welcome aboard.

 

[RG43]

You really dont think that there are reps from all kinds of different agencies monitoring this and all other gun forums on the internet? lol. Two totally opposite ends of the spectrum in here. Guys like you who have no idea about whats going on, and people like the OP who need to take off the tin foil sombrero and relax a lil bit. lol

I have no doubt everything here is getting recorded. I saw the Snowden movie, I don't doubt everything he says happens is true. I just don't see an actual person in an FBI/CIA/NSA or even ATF office cubicle sitting and reading every word we write. The computers are doing that for them, they are programmed for keywords and maybe who and were. If an investigation want's to pull that info up, they can, but I doubt they have the man power to be reading every pust on every gun forum every day. I'm on half a dozen forums myself, and I can't keep up with them all. There would be a whole crew of agents having to do nothing but sitting and reading forum posts 24/7, your talking about millions $ year in salary alone, plus misc expenses for that. And then what do they do to analyse all that? No, that's all automated on massive computers, and if they want to investigate something they'll retrieve what they need that is relevant. You are right, there are those with the tin hats who believe stuff that is way out there, but if you look at the practical aspect of it, and realize you are talking about our government that can hardly pass a bill to fund Zika eradication, and can't keep a guy from walking out of NSA office with top secret files about all kinds of operations, then you can see there are some limits as to what is possible. But at the same time, there are things that we do know (thanks to Snowden and others, including the recent Yahoo email revelations) and you also realize that there is no limit to what they are willing to do.