Scenario- Illegal church carry, church shooting occurs and good guy wins... Prison?

[scoutgunner]

Great information! Thanks

 

[leadslinger972]

I can think of several old Vietnam Veterans, including myself, who can still carry out a cool head shot from 30' without hitting any parishioners.

Congrats on you and your buddies being IPSC Grand Masters.

 

[JBP55]

"Leave the "hostage situation" up to the professionals!!! You in civilian clothes running around with a gun in church will not look like a good guy to the arriving officers "
I can think of several old Vietnam Veterans, including myself, who can still carry out a cool head shot from 30' without hitting any parishioners. Farther than that it gets dicey, but any attempt would require a lot of consideration and may not be possible. Some of my buddies refuse to touch a firearm ever again, but some still practice and carry concealed just for case.

A Cool Professional Maybe but the average CHP holder trying head shots at 30' in a stressful situation is a No Go.
I have drawn a head beside the head on a full size target and asked shooters to draw and shoot the bad guy in the head who is holding a pistol to the hostage. Many miss entirely or kill the hostage.
This is on a paper target on a square range with a little stress included prior to drawing and firing.

 

[AustinBR]

A Cool Professional Maybe but the average CHP holder trying head shots at 30' in a stressful situation is a No Go.
I have drawn a head beside the head on a full size target and asked shooters to draw and shoot the bad guy in the head who is holding a pistol to the hostage. Many miss entirely or kill the hostage.
This is on a paper target on a square range with a little stress included prior to drawing and firing.

And the target isn't moving, swaying side to side, or aware that it is about to be shot at.

 

[leadslinger972]

So y'all are saying that being a Vietnam Vet doesn't make you an IPSC Grand Master?

 

[AustinBR]

So y'all are saying that being a Vietnam Vet doesn't make you an IPSC Grand Master?

Yes.

 

[leadslinger972]

Yes.

So you're saying that just because you have a Louisiana CHP, and you are unlawfully attending, it doesn't mean you will be prepared in the event that your church has an active shooter?

 

[AustinBR]

So you're saying that just because you have a Louisiana CHP, and you are unlawfully attending, it doesn't mean you will be prepared in the event that your church has an active shooter?

Absolutely.

I would further argue that most people who are not current SWAT / Special Forces are not prepared for an active shooter anywhere. Large rooms with 15+ people create too many problems that any average person, including a typical LEO, cannot adequately prepare for.

Further, some SWAT teams may not even be "adequately" prepared for it like a specialized team like HRT might. Just my two cents.

 

[leadslinger972]

Seems to me like a lot of folks in this thread should stop flapping their gums and get some training.

 

[1wise1]

Without total buy-in from the Senior Pastor and his/her leadership team you'll be spinning your wheels. There will be some, possibly many church members and staff who are "morally opposed" to any consideration of an armed security group "roaming the halls looking for trouble".... You will probably even get one who says Jesus ordered Peter not to use force to protect him choosing to be martyred.
Have your ducks in a row for when the first one says whatever happens is in God's will.

 

[scoutgunner]

So y'all are saying that being a Vietnam Vet doesn't make you an IPSC Grand Master?

You are correct in that assumption. I'm speaking of actual combat Veterans who were facing mortal challenges.
I will agree the number of Vietnam Veterans who have actually been in more than a few firefights is rare and therefore cannot judge whether they can maintain a cool head, but having a lot of practical experience can optimize my own expectations. I cannot speak for another.

 

[leadslinger972]

You are correct in that assumption. I'm speaking of actual combat Veterans who were facing mortal challenges.
I will agree the number of Vietnam Veterans who have actually been in more than a few firefights is rare and therefore cannot judge whether they can maintain a cool head, but having a lot of practical experience can optimize my own expectations. I cannot speak for another.

Are there Vietnam Vets that are IPSC Grand Masters? Maybe, but the pool of GM's is already small.

However, being a Vietnam Vet doesn't make you an expert marksman. Shooting a 6" target moving at 10 yards is an impressive feat. If you truly can shoot that well, I'd love to watch you shoot. Sadly, my experience dealing with veterans has shown me that 9 out of 10 like to exaggerate beyond reason.

Point being, a lot of expert shooters are vets, but not all vets are experts.

 

[Bigchillin83]

Stabbing at church in Texas, 1 dead 3 wounded.... Sure does help sell the case of personal protection is needed!!!!

 

[leadslinger972]

Stabbing at church in Texas, 1 dead 3 wounded.... Sure does help sell the case of personal protection is needed!!!!

You could have said there was a mass shooting at 200 churches in the past 10 minutes, and it wouldn't get these fudds to receive the required training.

 

[XD-GEM]

One aspect of church carry that I have thought about: U(4) as posted by JBP55 above states that the section does not authorize concealed carry if the church, synagogue, or mosque is located on the property of a school. What about if the school is located on church property? Many of the Catholic churches in the area have a school on the property, but the property is owned by the church. Or do you have to have written permission from the Principal of the school as well?

This is an interesting question. I don't know if the law was simply poorly written, or if it was constructed this way on purpose to be a bit vague. You are right in saying that Catholic schools are on Church property. They are considered a ministry of the Church. So, read strictly that way, I would think that the pastor of any given Catholic parish could authorize carry at his particular church. One would have to check with the Bishop (or Archbishop) to know for sure.

 

[nolaradio]

Learn everything you need to learn in order to respond to an active shooter in a church setting this coming Saturday. Looks like the training will encompass a whole three hours.

https://www.crimestoppersgno.org/active-shooter-training.html

 

[John_]

Learn everything you need to learn in order to respond to an active shooter in a church setting this coming Saturday. Looks like the training will encompass a whole three hours.

https://www.crimestoppersgno.org/active-shooter-training.html

Read Blvd, NO East....oh yeah, they need some active response training for sure. Damn sure cannot count on the NOPD to save ur azz.