Sheriff Joe Arpaio to segregate veterans in Maricopa County jails.

[SeventhSon]

Figured this was the best forum to put this in. What does everyone think?

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...o-segregate-veterans-in-maricopa-county-jails

Sheriff Joe is segregating the veterans into their own pod and panting it red, white, and blue. He's also going to have special programs for them.

I kind of have mixed feelings about this. Part of me says, a criminal is a criminal. Let them do the time they earned. But another part of me thinks, these guys, at one point in their life, and for whatever reason, signed on the line and served their country and should catch a break. What is your opinion?

 

[ajt2341]

"They will continue to be subject to the same rules as the other inmates and will also continue to wear the pink underwear. Veterans convicted of murder and other felonies will be exempt from the new program."

Seems fair enough. There are a lot of programs that apply to veterans that don't apply to other people, so having programs to teach them about it or use resources set aside for veterans will be a benefit. It's also a good idea to have those who have had the same experiences together. I know of a few people that have gone through some serious things that have effected them and will only talk about it with those who have similar experiences.

 

[CatCam]

No - they crossed the line. End of Story -- a true veteran knows right from wrong and should have the discipline to know not to cross that line. Plus for every veteran who does cross the line it diminishes the upstanding values of a true veteran.

 

[ejt1469]

I like it. By their service, they have earned the "break."

 

[alpinehyperlite]

A right doesn't cancel out a wrong.

 

[charlie12]

I don't have a problem with it

 

[doc ace]

I agree with it. Some of the best guys I know, true stand up heroes and guys that have done remarkable things in combat have come home and failed to adjust. The war zone doesn't just disappear when you get out 90 days after being gone for a year. It's not easy, and a ton of them are being put on antidepressants which cloud judgement and affect dopamine and serotonin balances. When I came home I made a bad judgement call with a punk ass 19 year old who told me that's life, get over it. Well let me tell you, I just got back from having some of my best friends die in my arms and having to do unthinkable things to come home to the United States. Not all PTSD programs are good or beneficial to the veteran seeking help. I was there, and was a ball of fire and hot mess when I came home. It's taken 5 years to get to this point of stability and self control. Remember, not all veterans have had the same kinds of tours. They've all sacrificed, but not all had to pull the trigger or pieces and parts of their best friends out of a crater. There needs to be a more extensive and involved effort to reintegrating the combat veteran to civilian life. It's hard. It really is hard. Unless you've lived it, you have no idea how difficult it is to readjust to being home with a new set of rules.

 

[Emperor]

The only way this should fly is if he is separating US citizens from illegals.

 

[JNieman]

A right doesn't cancel out a wrong.

^This.

 

[JNieman]

There needs to be a more extensive and involved effort to reintegrating the combat veteran to civilian life.

Would certainly support that.

 

[deuxlatch]

I agree with it. Some of the best guys I know, true stand up heroes and guys that have done remarkable things in combat have come home and failed to adjust. The war zone doesn't just disappear when you get out 90 days after being gone for a year. It's not easy, and a ton of them are being put on antidepressants which cloud judgement and affect dopamine and serotonin balances. When I came home I made a bad judgement call with a punk ass 19 year old who told me that's life, get over it. Well let me tell you, I just got back from having some of my best friends die in my arms and having to do unthinkable things to come home to the United States. Not all PTSD programs are good or beneficial to the veteran seeking help. I was there, and was a ball of fire and hot mess when I came home. It's taken 5 years to get to this point of stability and self control. Remember, not all veterans have had the same kinds of tours. They've all sacrificed, but not all had to pull the trigger or pieces and parts of their best friends out of a crater. There needs to be a more extensive and involved effort to reintegrating the combat veteran to civilian life. It's hard. It really is hard. Unless you've lived it, you have no idea how difficult it is to readjust to being home with a new set of rules.

Well said. Kudos to you sir.

 

[MOTOR51]

I agree with it. Some of the best guys I know, true stand up heroes and guys that have done remarkable things in combat have come home and failed to adjust. The war zone doesn't just disappear when you get out 90 days after being gone for a year. It's not easy, and a ton of them are being put on antidepressants which cloud judgement and affect dopamine and serotonin balances. When I came home I made a bad judgement call with a punk ass 19 year old who told me that's life, get over it. Well let me tell you, I just got back from having some of my best friends die in my arms and having to do unthinkable things to come home to the United States. Not all PTSD programs are good or beneficial to the veteran seeking help. I was there, and was a ball of fire and hot mess when I came home. It's taken 5 years to get to this point of stability and self control. Remember, not all veterans have had the same kinds of tours. They've all sacrificed, but not all had to pull the trigger or pieces and parts of their best friends out of a crater. There needs to be a more extensive and involved effort to reintegrating the combat veteran to civilian life. It's hard. It really is hard. Unless you've lived it, you have no idea how difficult it is to readjust to being home with a new set of rules.

I agree but it's just a matter of time before they try to argue the same for abused women and people who were abused when they were kids(not trying to downplay that by any means) It's impossible these days to do anything without somebody trying to say it's not fair.


•MOTOR51•

 

[doc ace]

I'm not downplaying anything, though. I never said don't send them to jail, I said the segregation idea was good because of the programs he is trying to establish for the vets incarcerated. From the looks of it, he is trying to reinstill a sense of pride in themselves and ownership of responsibility for the acts committed by the veterans. It allows them to come together with other men who know what it is to walk the same path they did. Nowhere did I state that we weren't responsible for our actions, we simply need more time and programs to readjust and reintegrate prior to being released to the public. There is jack schitt in place right now as far as this is concerned, unless the veteran has friends or family to point themselves in the right direction toward the VA, and even that (in my experience) was subpar.

 

[JNieman]

I think giving them /individual/ treatment would be better than doing mass-segregation of all vets. How many of those vets reverted to gang ties and are just back into a perpetual recidivism cycle? The pool of veterans is as diverse as the regular pool, more than not, it seems. Most people like me only interact with the good and typical people who are veterans or active, but news and first/second-hand tales indicate there's a pretty significant criminal element present.

What would be the difference between keeping the populations the same- giving individual treatment on a per-prisoner basis, and separating the populations and having mixed types of criminals in each group?

 

[MOTOR51]

I'm not downplaying anything, though. I never said don't send them to jail, I said the segregation idea was good because of the programs he is trying to establish for the vets incarcerated. From the looks of it, he is trying to reinstill a sense of pride in themselves and ownership of responsibility for the acts committed by the veterans. It allows them to come together with other men who know what it is to walk the same path they did. Nowhere did I state that we weren't responsible for our actions, we simply need more time and programs to readjust and reintegrate prior to being released to the public. There is jack schitt in place right now as far as this is concerned, unless the veteran has friends or family to point themselves in the right direction toward the VA, and even that (in my experience) was subpar.

If that was directed towards my statement then you misunderstood me. I never said you were downplaying anything.


•MOTOR51•

 

[Nomad.2nd]

A right doesn't cancel out a wrong.

Does a wrong cancel out a right?

 

[Gravity]

I like what he is doing. We are beginning to understand that our vets coming back from war suffer from a variety of traumatic brain injuries and PTSD. From what I have read, we are not doing a very good job of helping them cope with these.

 

[pangris1]

If you exempt murders and violent felonies - absolutely makes sense.

They served at some point, in some way. Is the crime lessened? No.

Does it mean they are probably more capable than the average thug? Yes.

If you can easily screen a population that has proven their ability to be adapt and work as a team, put that knowledge to good use.

Allow them to participate in work programs geared to the greater good.