so who is the idiot here?

[yamatitan]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQSo9YX4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQSo9YX4[/ame]

 

[Speedlace]

"so who is the idiot here?"

No one.

The article said the camera guy has a "background in Law Enforcement"; I wonder what his LEO experience was/is?

 

[CloudStrife]

The cops should be suspended. Zero tolerance with this ********.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I am surprised at how maturely both parties discussed the issue.

Spanish cop--Apparently ill-informed about New Mexico laws concerning open carry and required ID law . However, I understand his desire to ascertain the identity of the armed man who chose to interject himself into a matter that did not directly concern him.

Back-up officer- Well spoken and attempted to descalate the situation.

Open carrier- He started this. He made the decision to carry this out. Furthermore, he could have walked back to his vehicle and left. Instead, he decided to walk around the block. Why? SPecifically to draw the officer out. Granted, he has a riht to walk and all that, but his intent is clear...he wanted a confrontation.

He repeatedly states that he values his privacy. Well, if he does, maybe he should mind his own business. If he was so concerned about his girlfriend, why did he not leave. Furthermore, I understand the whole civil disobedience angle, but why not just show your ID unless you are trying to escalate a situation.

This is another example, albeit a much milder version, of an "activist" attempting to bait the police.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

The cops should be suspended. Zero tolerance with this ********.

What did the cops do wrong?

 

[CloudStrife]

The cop followed the guy after he walked away. The camera guy didn't create the situation, the cop did. There was no baiting. He didn't act in a questionable manner. He was filming, and obeyed the command to distance himself while the cop was writing the ticket. These 2 need to be suspended as long as it takes them to read the US and their state constitutions.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

The cop followed the guy after he walked away. The camera guy didn't create the situation, the cop did. There was no baiting. He didn't act in a questionable manner. He was filming, and obeyed the command to distance himself while the cop was writing the ticket. These 2 need to be suspended as long as it takes them to read the US and their state constitutions.

WOW

SO the back-up officer is guilty also?

Maybe you should do a little research on Terry stops.

 

[glimmerman]

What did the cops do wrong?

LIED!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CloudStrife]

WOW

SO the back-up officer is guilty also?

Maybe you should do a little research on Terry stops.

This? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
There was no reasonable suspicion of anything illegal. The first cop didn't feel comfortable with the camera guy exercising his rights in a peaceful and lawful manner. His insecurity is his problem. The second cop took the same stance as the first, so yes, he needs to do some reading too.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

LIED!!!!!!!!!!!

SInce you are so sure of it (I guess based on the words LIE place ont he screen) . Post the New Mexico law that proves they were lying.

Perhaps they were right.
Perhaps they lied.
Perhaps they were misinformed.

Obviously, you can read people's minds.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

This? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
There was no reasonable suspicion of anything illegal. The first cop didn't feel comfortable with the camera guy exercising his rights in a peaceful and lawful manner. His insecurity is his problem. The second cop took the same stance as the first, so yes, he needs to do some reading too.

There you have it......wikipedia.

I must be wrong then.

 

[CloudStrife]

There you have it......wikipedia.

I must be wrong then.

The cop followed the guy and harassed him for his ID for no reason other than he didn't like a him OCing. If this is permissible, why can't they harass anyone for their ID for exercising any right?

Being a cop doesn't mean you have to blindly defend other cops. These are the guys that make you look bad.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

The cop followed the guy and harassed him for his ID for no reason other than he didn't like a him OCing. If this is permissible, why can't they harass anyone for their ID for exercising any right?

Being a cop doesn't mean you have to blindly defend other cops. These are the guys that make you look bad.

WHen did I say I was defending them?

But your right. I am wrong.

What was I thinking?

 

[CloudStrife]

WHen did I say I was defending them?

But your right. I am wrong.

What was I thinking?

I don't know.

 

[charliepapa]

SInce you are so sure of it (I guess based on the words LIE place ont he screen) . Post the New Mexico law that proves they were lying.

Perhaps they were right.
Perhaps they lied.
Perhaps they were misinformed.

Obviously, you can read people's minds.

Before this gets out of hand, and no, I am not baiting you here, what would you have done in a similar situation if that happened here in LA while you were working a traffic stop?

I see both sides of it but it sure seems like if they weren't going to ultimately tase the guy and haul him in, the first guy (cop) should have just let it go when the camera guy walked away from the traffic stop. Instead, he took the bait and brought the game to the next level by following this guy who obviously doesn't have much to do.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Before this gets out of hand, and no, I am not baiting you here, what would you have done in a similar situation if that happened here in LA while you were working a traffic stop?

I see both sides of it but it sure seems like if they weren't going to ultimately tase the guy and haul him in, the first guy (cop) should have just let it go when the camera guy walked away from the traffic stop. Instead, he took the bait and brought the game to the next level by following this guy who obviously doesn't have much to do.

Not sure what I would have done. However, I think an armed man video taping police actions, in today's society is suspicious and worthy of some degree of questioning by police. I may not have expressed it the same way, but I suspect I would have felt the same as the first officer.

The cop definitely could have let it go, but he was well within his legal powers to approach the guy and ask him questions. There is nothing wrong with that. When they guys asked if he was free to leave, the officers said yes. The camera guy did do the right thing by immediately going across the street when asked to leave the scene. Had he videoed from there and then left, it would have been a non-issue

I think the camera guy is a tool who went out looking for some action. That is why he did not go to his vehicle and set the "trap" that the first officer foolishly walked into. But that is typical of these types of people and we should expect that. However, he did handle himself less toolish than most tools of his breed.

LEO can walk up to anyone they want and ask them for ID for any reason I want. At that point it is a consensual encounter. Now, whether they are required by law to comply is dependent on other circumstances.

Being that I know someone who is open carrying with a video camera is more than likely a MEMONITE and looking for attention or a new motorcycle, I probably would have let it go. Now, despite what these wikiexperts say, I am probably a little more knowledgeable about general firearm laws than the AVERAGE LEO. So they way I handle firearm issues are generally more in favor of the legally armed citizen.

Part of that is because if my business and the fact that the subject interest me, just like there are officers who are much more knowledgeable about drug laws than me, because that is their area of specialization or they have a personal interest.

 

[charliepapa]

Fair enough. The main reason I asked is because I do believe that you have more knowledge on the subject than the average LEO.

Despite the fact that I think cop #1 should have just *let it go* I also think the camera guy is more or less a tool and must be just looking for hits on his youtube account. I wonder how much his GF pays for car insurance since she's started running stop signs, etc., trying to get bring traffic cops onto their stage.

I do still wonder if the tool wouldn't have had a camera running, if they'd have tased him and brought him to the station. That may have required a little more self control.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Fair enough. The main reason I asked is because I do believe that you have more knowledge on the subject than the average LEO.

Despite the fact that I think cop #1 should have just *let it go* I also think the camera guy is more or less a tool and must be just looking for hits on his youtube account. I wonder how much his GF pays for car insurance since she's started running stop signs, etc., trying to get bring traffic cops onto their stage.

I do still wonder if the tool wouldn't have had a camera running, if they'd have tased him and brought him to the station. That may have required a little more self control.

LOL. He really wasn't that bad of a tool compared to what we have seen.

But I find it pretty obvious what his intent was. If all he wanted to do was video tape, he would have stayed in his vehicle and driven away when he knew his GF was safe.

The officers, other than possibly being wrong about the laws in New Mexico were courteous and professional.

 

[hdfinder47]

Trying to be objective and without forethought as to how the situation ended up, what would any civilian do if a stranger came at them with a camera (and a firearm) while they are at work? You are sitting at your desk / backhoe / lawn equipment / work bench / whatever) and a tool walks up with a camera and gun - WTF? And especially in this day and age with all the police ambushes and murders. It is obivious that this fools intent was to bait the officer(s) into a confrontation. For what purpose? To add even more stress to an underpaid, thankless (for the most part) and already stressful job. Pizz on him and his ilk. JMHFO.

 

[CloudStrife]

Trying to be objective and without forethought as to how the situation ended up, what would any civilian do if a stranger came at them with a camera (and a firearm) while they are at work? You are sitting at your desk / backhoe / lawn equipment / work bench / whatever) and a tool walks up with a camera and gun - WTF? And especially in this day and age with all the police ambushes and murders. It is obivious that this fools intent was to bait the officer(s) into a confrontation. For what purpose? To add even more stress to an underpaid, thankless (for the most part) and already stressful job. Pizz on him and his ilk. JMHFO.

Mowing my grass or wood working is very different than writing a ticket. Police officers enforce the law, something that they are publicly expected to do correctly. No one cares about my lawn or whatever I'm building. I'd be concerned if a stranger decided to observe me, camera and gun or not.

The guy recorded all of 20 seconds of the ticket writing, and then walked away. That's not much baiting.