Speaking of Beagles, Can anyone tell about this one?

[LabRat]

I found this little guy on the banks of Belle River while fishing a couple years ago. It was February, very cold, and I could hear him howling from a long way off. All that we could figure is that maybe a pregnant hunting dog gave birth while on a hunt? and the puppies scattered after a couple of weeks? It was near a hunting clubs property.

After getting back to the camp with the frozen little puppy, my neighbor was telling me that this was a rare beagle and worth some money, I dont remember why she was telling me this but the next day when I took it to the vet to get checked out for getting it adopted the vet actually said she would take it. I have never heard of a vet taking in a stray for their personal pet. Of course, I gave her the puppy with the only stipulation being that it would never be a hunting dog and stuffed in a small cage to live.


Here are some pics, any info would be appreciated.

 

[mprice]

I don't know what has happened between you and hunting but it must have been bad...

"All that we could figure is that maybe a pregnant hunting dog gave birth while on a hunt? and the puppies scattered after a couple of weeks? It was near a hunting clubs property."

And, "I gave her the puppy with the only stipulation being that it would never be a hunting dog and stuffed in a small cage to live."

When I was born (62 yrs ago) I came home from the hospital to a house with dogs in it. I have owned, bred, trained, raised, shown, raced (lure course and open field), hunted, and lived with dogs all my life. I can't imagine anyone taking a bred female out to field when she's anywhere near whelping - it just doesn't make sense.

I don't mean it to sound like I'm coming down on you. But, if you have ever had the chance to see a greyhound chase a lure, or a lab in a canoe hunting ducks, or a coonhound on track and treeing a coon, or seen a pack of beagles working a rabbit, it might shed a new light on your feelings about hunting dogs. In other words, hunting dogs were bred to hunt - with all required senses and drive a breeder can put in a dog. To stipulate that you would place a hunting dog with someone who says that it could never be hunted seems shortsighted and rather naive at best.

The condition of color (coat / eyes / nose leather) of the above beagle is looks like what is called a "dilute" or "blue" color. It is genetic in most hunting and hound breeds and shows up from time to time. In some breeds, a dilute color is bred for - Weimaraner, Great Danes, etc. In many breeds (hounds and hunting dogs), a dilute color is a "fault" or a "disqualification" in the show ring. In other words, it would be hard to finish a grey greyhound in the show ring - regardless of conformation. Not many breeders would want to reproduce this trait.

And, regarding "kennels". My dogs (present and past) live in my house, share the bed, my couch, my truck, etc. And yes, they do have kennels. I've traveled pretty much all over the country to dog shows, races, hunts, with dogs in kennels (so they don't become missiles in a crash). And they also have kennels in the house, too - that they stay in for short periods when I'm out of the house. (So, maybe you meant outside, fenced in kennels?)

 

[LabRat]

Where I found this puppy, there was no visible structure for a a long distance, and there is nothing noticable on satellite. I dont know where the puppy came from, but it was in distress and there was no way in hell I was leaving it on the river bank at four to five weeks old. I have no clue how it got there, that was the idea of my neighbor who actually lives there.

I have seen many people, including relatives with hunting dogs and they are kept in 4 x 4 cages, not kennels, and they live in those cages year round until hunting season. I understand labs and such are usually treated as pets because they are usually "lone" hunters/retreivers. I'm specifically talking about mutiple dogs for hunting deer and rabbit, atc...

My dogs are more important to me than most human beings, and I would have kept him if it wasnt for the god awful howling that he would let off every ten minutes or so. I cant imagine how loud that would be when he was grown.

Despite that, I would have happily kept him before giving him to someone who would have kept him outside all year. That's just the way I roll

I have to say, I still dont understand the purpose of your rant, I just asked for a simple explaination of the situation that happened to me.

 

[mprice]

Not trying to rant, sorry. Just take offense when it seems like folks are taking shots at hunters - we have enough probs with anti-gunners! The only dog I am hunting right now goes hunting with me and other dogs - in a pack, comes home, gets bathed and comes in the house with me. Your comments about pack hunting hit awful close to home.

I understand about so called sportsmen who dogs that live in kennel / prison or on a chain their whole life - (we must have the same kind of kin - I have kin who starve dogs to make them "hunt better"). These are neither sportsmen or legitimate hunters - they're ignorant hillbillies. It is unfortunate that we live in a place where you can have children and domestic animals without passing a test!!

I recognize that you did a good thing - probably saved the pups life. Unfortunately, as I tried feebly to say, dilute puppies are often not valued and "culled" at birth - yours might have been dumped by the breeder (see "pass a test first, above").

And, I do understand about loud scent hounds - the only one that does not vocalize, that I am aware of, is the Harrier hound. My bluetick coonhound can make the windows rattle - her bugle is loud but, not nearly as piercing as a beagle. My "Jezebel" barks occasionally, but adult beagles are loud if they are awake.

Marc Price

 

[LabRat]

I'm definitely not anti-gun, and although I dont hunt anymore, I'm not anti-hunter.

I actually think that having pets as an adult have attributed to my desire to not kill animals any longer. Hard to look at game the same knowing that some people would look at my dog the same way (just another animal).

I will kill the hell out of some fish though!

 

[mprice]

I'm definitely not anti-gun, and although I dont hunt anymore, I'm not anti-hunter.

I actually think that having pets as an adult have attributed to my desire to not kill animals any longer. Hard to look at game the same knowing that some people would look at my dog the same way (just another animal).

I will kill the hell out of some fish though!

I agree with adulthood changing attitudes. In some ways, I've grown much closer to my dogs than I am to people (probably why I come off as a not so nice). At the same time I recognize that my hunting dogs do possess a killer inside them - most of us do on some level (if fish work for you - that's cool).

I was thinking about your "freezing puppy" and it reminded me of a friend of mine - who is even more antisocial than I am. The last I heard, he still lives in the Ozark mountains now alone with his dogs after his wife of many years passed away. He had a litter of coonhounds one winter and whelped them on a closed in breezeway. He was down to the last one of the litter (a little boy) and the gyp. He says he told his wife "I'm worried about the pup getting to cold tonite so I'm bringing him in with us." She said, "but, what about the smell?" He told me that he told her, "don't worry honey, he'll get used to it." He finished by telling me, "he did!"

Marc Price

 

[TomTerrific]

If you want to hear a real bay, my bassets will be glad to comply.

 

[LabRat]

If you want to hear a real bay, my bassets will be glad to comply.

Aaaaahhhhhhh, No Thanks!

We fostered some mastador (half South African Mastiff, half Lab) puppies recently and they were a test of patience on how loud those little buggers could be, even their grunts were loud.

One of the owners just texted me that her male just hit 95lbs and they dont make 9 months for two more weeks. We got them at 4 weeks, two were at 11lbs, one at 10lbs.

 

[LabRat]

Couple pics

father and pup





4 Weeks old, 11lbs, stomping around with a full sized tennis ball

 

[Cat]

And, regarding "kennels". My dogs (present and past) live in my house, share the bed, my couch, my truck, etc. And yes, they do have kennels. I've traveled pretty much all over the country to dog shows, races, hunts, with dogs in kennels (so they don't become missiles in a crash). And they also have kennels in the house, too - that they stay in for short periods when I'm out of the house. (So, maybe you meant outside, fenced in kennels?)

That's what I think he meant as well. My breeder (and subsequently myself) refers to the inside/travel kennels as "crates" and kennels are the actual outdoor barn-esque kennels. My Maggie and Fig will never see a kennel, but they see their crates every day being puppies still.

To the OP: I'm going to back up mprice here.. Not to persuade you that hunting isn't bad. But that finding a sport that the dog was bred for, is actually good for the dog.

I'll train my two small 15lb terriers both for the AKC "earth dog" trials. It's a form of hunting that the smaller terriers and dachshunds are particularly known for, rooting small animals from burrows and nests, wood piles, rock piles etc. To the dog, it's hereditary, it's in their genes, and to be perfectly honest it gives them an outlet to pursue. Quite often people rehome certain animals because they are ill equipped to deal with their mentality. Border collies for example absolutely need something or somebody to herd. Working dogs are and always will be working dogs. Hunting dogs, likewise. Have you ever seen an ignored, neglected half grown black lab? Holy moly that's one big walking behavior problem.


However I do wholeheartedly agree. Some people do not bring their hunting dogs inside. They're not beloved members of the family.. And if they're injured, it's "it'll heal or it'll be shot" fatalistic view. That's a very old deep south mentality IMO that people are growing out of. My parents are still in the "dogs don't need a fence, they're dogs" mindset. Drives me nuts. My great uncle had hunting dogs. I never met them. They didn't live in town. They lived in the woods, at camp. I hear less of that and more of what Hitman is doing, investing a great deal of time, money and effort into creating a fantastic hunting tool, but also happens to be loved and cherished by the rest of the family too.

I do still see hunting packs, but they're usually in a wire cage in front with a dilapidated shed for cover. They are ignorant hillbillies. I don't see healthy hunting packs because they're obviously not out front and center, visible to everybody who drives by. They're inside, or their kennel is so clean I drive by it without notice. (A person only sees the worst typically) I think there is the rub. The only hunting dogs you might see or notice are those that are off leash, lost, neglected in a fence in the yard, etc. So it's all a person obviously believes is out there. It colors the culture poorly.

Rarely I do get a lost hunting dog in our back yard. Most of the time it's been a well identified, collared, solid built, and healthy blue tick. It's been years since I've seen an underfed, neglected pup wander up after a night hunt.

 

[mprice]

That's what I think he meant as well. My breeder (and subsequently myself) refers to the inside/travel kennels as "crates" and kennels are the actual outdoor barn-esque kennels. My Maggie and Fig will never see a kennel, but they see their crates every day being puppies still.

To the OP: I'm going to back up mprice here.. Not to persuade you that hunting isn't bad. But that finding a sport that the dog was bred for, is actually good for the dog.

I'll train my two small 15lb terriers both for the AKC "earth dog" trials. It's a form of hunting that the smaller terriers and dachshunds are particularly known for, rooting small animals from burrows and nests, wood piles, rock piles etc. To the dog, it's hereditary, it's in their genes, and to be perfectly honest it gives them an outlet to pursue. Quite often people rehome certain animals because they are ill equipped to deal with their mentality. Border collies for example absolutely need something or somebody to herd. Working dogs are and always will be working dogs. Hunting dogs, likewise. Have you ever seen an ignored, neglected half grown black lab? Holy moly that's one big walking behavior problem.


However I do wholeheartedly agree. Some people do not bring their hunting dogs inside. They're not beloved members of the family.. And if they're injured, it's "it'll heal or it'll be shot" fatalistic view. That's a very old deep south mentality IMO that people are growing out of. My parents are still in the "dogs don't need a fence, they're dogs" mindset. Drives me nuts. My great uncle had hunting dogs. I never met them. They didn't live in town. They lived in the woods, at camp. I hear less of that and more of what Hitman is doing, investing a great deal of time, money and effort into creating a fantastic hunting tool, but also happens to be loved and cherished by the rest of the family too.

I do still see hunting packs, but they're usually in a wire cage in front with a dilapidated shed for cover. They are ignorant hillbillies. I don't see healthy hunting packs because they're obviously not out front and center, visible to everybody who drives by. They're inside, or their kennel is so clean I drive by it without notice. (A person only sees the worst typically) I think there is the rub. The only hunting dogs you might see or notice are those that are off leash, lost, neglected in a fence in the yard, etc. So it's all a person obviously believes is out there. It colors the culture poorly.

Rarely I do get a lost hunting dog in our back yard. Most of the time it's been a well identified, collared, solid built, and healthy blue tick. It's been years since I've seen an underfed, neglected pup wander up after a night hunt.

Thanks Cat! you said exactly what I meant to say but I said it poorly!

Marc Price

P.S. Cat - could you maybe post some "earth dog" trial pics sometime? - I bet it's cool to watch some ratters work!

 

[LandrysGuns]

I'm a great fan of Beagles and I am on my 4th. Sadly the first 3 have departed us and Scout is my only one left. This little guy looks like a chocolate beagle. If I recall they are always brown and white and are a recessive gene on the mother's side. I bred my 2nd beagle to a bitch in Mobile and the owner there knew she threw a chocolate every now and then. Well as luck would have it, she got one and she had a very happy customer. To my knowledge the other 4 or 5 litters from my male never produced a chocolate.

That is one cute puppy and I love those short snouted beagles.