Trial by Fire - Did Texas execute an innocent man?

[spanky]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?currentPage=1

 

[TDH]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?currentPage=1

You do realize that is 17 pages don't you

 

[Specularius]

I have to agree, that being a hard read, that the man was innocent. There is no pain greater than loosing a child............and to loose three and be blaimed for it???????? May this man know the peace of heaven and be with his children forever.

 

[Speedlace]

You do realize that is 17 pages don't you

Dem Yankees mak-ums they scribbles longs so wiess don't read.

Take the time to at least skim through it.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I actually read the whole thing. I guess it boils down to which expert you believe. I think I am siding with the father on this one. There appears to be no motive for him to kill them. Even the mother that he beat was on his side.

The system is not perfect, but it is the best we have. I know people do not like to hear this, but if one innocent person has to die so that murders do not kill 100 more, that is the price we pay. Who knows, I may be the next innocent guy to die. I will say that cases like this are few and far between with DNA and the level of appeals we have now. All of the cases that were overturned were from 20-40 years ago when we had to judge trials off of who we believed instead of scientific evidence.

i think the case for the death penalty is stronger now than it has ever been. Not saying it can't happen, but it would have to be some crazy circumstances for an innocent man to be executed for a modern case.

 

[spanky]

You do realize that is 17 pages don't you

I should have put a "Not for Livingston residents" disclaimer.

 

[Debjouette]

Yeah but it's 17 pages well worth reading. Poor fella, it's a crying shame what the system does to people. God Bless us All! Cuz we sure do need it! Amen

 

[Tulse Luper]

That's one intense article. Thanks for posting it.

I'll take the scientific method over the good-ole'-boy method any day.

 

[TDH]

I should have put a "Not for Livingston residents" disclaimer.

I read in college, high school, and etc. I'm on vacation

 

[tunatuk]

That was a good read. I don't have any knowledge of fire other than setting one and putting one out with the garden hose, so I can't comment as to the intricacies of their investigation.

I'm just an amateur pyromaniac. Sucks if they did in fact execute an innocent man though.

 

[Tulse Luper]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...yFire&utm_medium=GoogleAds&utm_source=Keyword

Frontline is running an episode on this. It's on PBS now.

 

[my-rifle]

I lived in Texas for many years, and I'd go back there if I could find work as good as what I have here in LA. The state's judicial system revels in rushing to judgment though. Texans take pride in the rate at which they put people to death. I'd bet that Texas puts quite a few innocent people to death. As I have said before, when I lived there the coroner was found to have for many years given fraudulent testimony backing up the DA's cases. Some of these were death penalty cases. The ones who had not yet been executed had their convictions overturned. It was ugly.

 

[Hitman]

Here's something interesting;

The re-examination of the case turns on a critical finding that came only weeks before Willingham's scheduled execution: The investigators who determined that Willingham had set the fire that killed his three daughters had relied on an outdated understanding of arson evidence. "Todd Willingham's case falls into that category where there is not one iota of evidence that the fire was arson," forensic scientist Gerald Hurst tells FRONTLINE of the results of his review of the evidence. "Fundamentally, this was a classic accidental fire."

But even with a central pillar of the state's case against Willingham in doubt, Texas Gov. Rick Perry refused to delay Willingham's execution. Last year a report [PDF] commissioned by the Texas Forensic Science Commission backed up the findings of Dr. Hurst, finding that the arson evidence against Willingham did not have "any basis in modern fire science." Perry publicly defended his handling of the case and quickly replaced the commission's chairman, Sam Bassett.

As seen in our written history men and women are indeed capable of killing their children without remorse or emotion.

I'm glad I wasn't on the jury is all I can say.

 

[SirIsaacNewton]

I actually read the whole thing. I guess it boils down to which expert you believe. I think I am siding with the father on this one. There appears to be no motive for him to kill them. Even the mother that he beat was on his side.

The system is not perfect, but it is the best we have. I know people do not like to hear this, but if one innocent person has to die so that murders do not kill 100 more, that is the price we pay. Who knows, I may be the next innocent guy to die. I will say that cases like this are few and far between with DNA and the level of appeals we have now. All of the cases that were overturned were from 20-40 years ago when we had to judge trials off of who we believed instead of scientific evidence.

i think the case for the death penalty is stronger now than it has ever been. Not saying it can't happen, but it would have to be some crazy circumstances for an innocent man to be executed for a modern case.

Interesting read. I however don't share your utilitarian approach to the death penalty. Actually I don't see the difference between the murders you are supposedly preventing from killing and the murders who where "legally justified" to kill an innocent man. More science less legal system is my answer. Just consider me the Christopher Walken of Science, "I've got a fever and the only prescription is more science."

 

[Cat]

Spec and I have been back and forth. I agree with NOLA. As bad as his death was, it opened the door for more research. His death may save lives. Our system isn't perfect.

However that does not make what they did right. Sometimes you should ignore science and listen to the people instead. As far as I know, nobody would suggest science is perfect 100% of the time. At best it should have been a commuted sentence.

I do know that sometimes... The public or jury doesn't always hear everything the investigators have to say. Things are tossed out on technicalities. Our area just went through the Guttweiler case. It finally closed earlier this year. I won't say what I've heard because he didn't publically share in his interview but I'm entirely convinced she's guilty. This same evidence that presents his innocence worked in her favor when IMO the system failed those children.

As I said I've been back and forth on this. I do believe the man is innocent based on what has been presented but I've also seen a gagged investigator who I truly thought would retire after the trial because he felt so strongly.

 

[posse comatosis]

I will say that cases like this are few and far between with DNA and the level of appeals we have now.

To the contrary. The number Texas inmates released in recent times based on DNA analysis is astounding. It is conceivable in light of the number of releases that many have been unfairly convicted and incarcerated by the State of Texas and may still reside in jail or have served their unwarranted time. One conundrum has been how to adequately compensate the ones who are freed.

I recall one case in particular, an old black man from Lufkin who was around 75 when The Innocence Project sprung him. I think he'd been in jail over for 35+++ years on a rape charge he didn't commit. How the hell you gonna compensate a man for that kind of error?

 

[my-rifle]

Yeah, I'd prefer that 1000 guilty people go free rather than kill one innocent person.

 

[posse comatosis]

Yeah, I'd prefer that 1000 guilty people go free rather than kill one innocent person.

I detect a note of sarcasm in that statement.