leadslinger972
*Banned*
They are arguably more reliable too.
Tricked out carry guns.
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They are arguably more reliable too.
RaleighReloader
Well-Known Member
Good question. My rule of thumb is that I don't carry any gun that I haven't put at least a thousand rounds through at the range, but I think I'm in the minority based on the number of used guns I see for sale, with carry holsters, that are advertised as only have had a few dozen rounds through them.
But aside from that, Sigmas seem to elicit two responses: people either think they're the simplest and most reliable gun ever made, or they have problems with them and dump them pretty quickly. I don't know if quality control was too variable to maintain consistency, or if they're just finnicky about ammunition or limp wristing, or whatever else it might be ... but there are a lot of Sigmas and SD's providing good reliable service, and I'm not going to judge someone else for their choice of gun.
As for wanting to not have a gun confiscated by law enforcement ... I get it; that's why I almost never carry my Ed Brown. The nicer the gun, the more incentive there will be for the police department to "lose" the gun when it's being held as evidence. And yes, as good as I know most officers are, I have a healthy dose of skepticism about police organizations as a whole.
Mike
It's very rare that the final "good shoot" decision is made on scene. As part of the investigation, it's common practice to confiscate the weapon for testing to match any casings and rounds and possibly DNA. The DA's office will usually wait for all of the reports before they decide to not prosecute. At that point the person can request the weapon be released as it is no longer evidence. But it wouldn't be unusual for them to be without that weapon for a month or two.
Even with that, having the weapon confiscated shouldn't be the deciding factor on the price one pays to protect themselves. If a pretty reliable weapon that you're comfortable with runs $200 and a really reliable weapon runs $350, the extra money should be worth it.
Concealed carry is not a fashion show. You carry what you feel comfortable with and practice with depending on your situation. My opinion is that I want to carry a reliable, middle of the road, factory stock gun that works when I need it. Aftermarket parts and modifications are for range toys and competition guns. My choice is a Walther PPS M2 with 8 round mags. I would like to carry something bigger but I am usually wearing shorts and a t shirt.
RaleighReloader
Well-Known Member
Point taken, but I believe that the bigger determining factor for reliability will be the person holding the gun, and not the gun itself. Case-in-point: the best semi-automatic in the world will still be prone to FTE's if it's limp-wristed.
Put differently: I'd have more faith in the reliability of a Smith & Wesson Sigma in the hands of a skilled marksman than I would in a Glock or a Sig Sauer in the hands of a rookie.
Mike
Yes, no weapon, regardless of price, can replace training. And if my life depended on it, I'd choose a Smith & Wesson Sigma in the hands of a skilled marksman than I would in a Glock or a Sig Sauer in the hands of a rookie if those were my only options. If given the option, I'd choose a Glock or Sig Sauer in the hands of a skilled marksman over those other two.
But a large majority of people carry "just in case". And if they are placed in a shtf situation, they won't have the time or opportunity to choose weapons or shooters. In the worst case, their life may come down to choices they made months and/or years prior. How much did they train and what weapon did they choose. Personally, I'll put my faith in my skills with a Glock. I could be the best marksman in the world but I can't say I'd ever trust my life to a Hi-Point.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
For those concerned with a firearm being confiscated for fear of losing an investment, why carry a firearm at all? Most self defense shootings end in lengthy and expensive civil lawsuits. A $1,000 or even $2,000 firearm is the least of my worries.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
To add to the theme of this thread, since it has already gone off topic, the purpose of modern firearms being modified heavily is because the modifications have been proven. I wouldn't start altering safeties, but trigger jobs and grip enhancements are nothing new. People have been doing that for years.
The only arguments I have ever seen towards modifications is the fallacy that it will hurt you in court and the idea that your gun will be forever lost in the event of a shooting, which in itself is a tiny percentage of an already miniscule percentage.
The only arguments I have ever seen towards modifications is the fallacy that it will hurt you in court and the idea that your gun will be forever lost in the event of a shooting, which in itself is a tiny percentage of an already miniscule percentage.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
I don't see enhancements as a fashion show.
A smoother trigger is an enhancement, regardless of what color it is.
A match barrel is an enhancement, regardless if it has dimples or not.
Slide modifications are enhancements, regardless of what finish it has.
if your favorite firearm came in 10,000 colors, would you pick black because it's not a fashion show?
Let me put it this way. Back in deepest darkest Africa, when the bullets were flying, I don't think I would have been able to tell the difference between my crunchy R4 (Galil variant) trigger and the super duper drop in trigger in my competition AR. I would also much rather tuck a nice, crisp 7lb Walther trigger down the front of my pants that some 3.5 or 4 lb hair trigger. Obviously the enhancements you mention improve performance or we wouldn't drop all these dollars on our competition guns. I don't worry about the price and losing the gun after a shoot. My life is worth it. I just don't think excessive mods are practical in a carry gun. Just my opinion - obviously different from yours
Sometimes it comes down to what you "like". The function of your car may be to get you from point A to point B. Any mod (rims, exhaust, tires) that doesn't impede the function of the car aren't "practical" but make the car look better. It's the same thing with a gun. It's like putting ivory handles on a 1911.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
That's what I'm questioning. What is impractical about them?
If they do not hinder reliability, and increase performance, is that a bad thing?
For years the notion of modifying a carry gun was shunned, but now it's relatively commonplace. If there are no downsides, what does it harm?
- - - Updated - - -
Ivory handles do not increase performance.
I have seen too many articles where there have been accidental discharges due to modified triggers. I prefer not to have a gun go off when it is tucked down the front of my pants. I have also seen a lot of race guns fail for various reasons. It is one thing to DNF a stage but to DNF your life is another beast.
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Even with that, having the weapon confiscated shouldn't be the deciding factor on the price one pays to protect themselves. If a pretty reliable weapon that you're comfortable with runs $200 and a really reliable weapon runs $350, the extra money should be worth it.[/QUOTE]
I hate that word.Just say what that word really means in LEO life.THEFT,stealing,taken without
any reasons or thoughts or paperwork of giving it back.PERIOD.
I nor anyone Ive ever known have been given their firearm back after any investigation.I'm not
blaming LEO for doing their job,I'm blaming the low life judges and court systems for not recognizing
peoples rights to their property.I have spent $1000's of dollars trying to get my guns back,hasn't
happened yet and im 76,so im betting it never will!!!!
Sorry op for getting off subject,but that word makes me boil..lol
Pretty guns don't sell for their actual value ,as they would if they were from factory.
If you plan on making a gun pretty,you should be ready to keep it forever or expect
the value to drop to at least half.I see these glock guys and other firearms being sold
that are " Pretty "they rarely sell and never for the fair price of the firearm from factory.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
I think to many of you are focusing on the aesthetic aspect, and not how modifications can be performance enhancements.
Yes. I know I am. When I think of "tricked out", dressing it up comes to mind.
I believe there's a chance you may lose some reliability with the performance enhancing mods. Stock components are usually more extensively tested than mods simply because of the number that are out there. But mods that have been around a while, like some triggers and barrels, have shown to be quite reliable. Some people just feel it's too big of a chance to take.
I think some mods could be worth it. A comp may help the shooter get subsequent shots off accurately. That's a huge performance boost, IMHO. The mechanical advantage coupled with personal training could certainly show a big advantage over just the training.
I am not considering the aesthetic aspect at all. It is concealed and nobody sees it. My concern is for the safety and reliability of the modifications. I want it to go bang when it needs to and really don't mind a couple of extra pounds of trigger weight if that is what it takes. A tuned trigger is great when shooting for score or for time, but in the heat of the moment, all I need is center mass. The main thing to remember, even after extensive training, is that you will be under duress - a stressful environment and the less chance of things going south on you, the better.
leadslinger972
*Banned*
If there were performance enhancing modifications that were proven reliable and safe, would you employ them?
Sure I would. Like everything though, I would weigh up the cost vs the gains and decide from there. I am not against upgrades if they are as safe and as reliable as the factory equipment and that the gains are worth the cost. For instance. Milling the slide on a lightweight, sub compact pistol would not make sense to me. Recoil management is already an issue due to weight, so further reducing the weight would be counter intuitive. Porting the barrel on the other hand may be worth it. I would need to research that a bit better though.
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