Truing a factory rifle action

[HogHunter1203]

This has the potential to be a controversial thread, but I have a question. Why would you take a factory rifle, say a Rem 700, and have the action "trued?" Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the idea of a true precision rifle build, and have been salivating over the idea of buying one for quite a while. Getting 1/4 MOA accuracy out of rifle is impressive to say the least, and I'm sure it takes a tremendous amount of work to accomplish that level of precision; part of which is ensuring appropriate tolerances and precision machining of the action.

Here's why I ask. I've owned 3 bolt guns that shoot factory loaded ammo with sub MOA precision with little to no modification: Rem 700 .270 (wood stock, hunter barrel, factory trigger, etc) - my first rifle which shoots just under 1 MOA with factory federal premium ammo; Rem 700 .308 SPS tactical aac-sd - shoots 3/4 MOA with 150g core-lokts; and a Weatherby Vanguard .308 - Sub MOA with core-lokts as well. The AAC-SD is the only one that is not stock. It's got a B&C stock and Timney trigger. Hand loads are getting close to 1/2 MOA on that rifle. I have not yet loaded for the other two. To be fair, it took some time to figure out which factory load worked best in each rifle; none of which shoot "match grade ammo" worth a dern. Maybe I've just been lucky and this is not the norm from factory firearms...

So, does truing the action really improve performance in a measurable way? Or, is it just one part of several (bedding stock or mouting in a chassis, new trigger, new barrel, etc) that SHOULD be done when improving a factory rifle? If so, is there a significant money saving advantage by starting factory or does it make more sense just to save a little dough and buy a custom rifle from the start? This is obviously a question from a relative newbie to the precision shooting community, and I am not taking a stab at anyone who's had their action worked on. Hell, I may have it done to my rifle if I can be convinced it's worth it. But, really, I'm just curious.

Barney, if you're listening, forgive any misspellings and feel free to correct any lapses in terminology. Thanks

 

[Barney88PDC]

Turing an action is to ensure all the surfaces are square to the receiver and the threads are concentric to the action. I am speaking on a 700 action. From the factory it is not even close usually.

My first custom rifle was built on a 700 action from a 700P that I sent to the gunsmith. So he got a complete 700P with another stock, trigger, DBM, and barrel blank. I got back a custom rig with the factory stock, factory trigger, factory barrel and BDL bottom metal. In hind sight I should have sold the complete gun and bought a custom action with the money. I was just getting into it and didn't know any better. People argue both ways of truing a 700 action. Personally I don't know as I have not tried it both ways and even if you did having one sample of each variety would have no statistical significance so. I will say this the LOINS share of accuracy gains will be from an aftermarket barrel maker. After that a stress free bedding job on the action and recoil lug with a free floating barrel in front of the recoil lug is a very good start. Lighter aftermarket triggers help my group size. I also feel I shoot smaller groups with higher magnification.

As far as actions, a factory Rem 700 is worth about 300-400, to get it trued is usually about 250, add a 20 MOA base from Seekins or Nightforce as well as an aftermarket precision ground recoil lug and you are sitting at the +/- $800 mark and still all you have is a factory action that I'd bet the bolt handle is so bad out of spec on the camming surface of the primary extraction it may not even contact. For $900 you can be in a Bighorn or Stiller or be pretty close. I usually build on Surgeon or Defiance and will not build another rifle on a action that does not have an integral rail and recoil lug. I've had bases come loose on Rem 700 and custom actions that caused some head scratching in the accuracy department until we figured it out. To me it's not worth the headache With an integral lug I can swap barrels and know they will be headspaced correctly and not have to time the lug.

The barrel needs to be dialed in at 2 points and I think there is something to be said about running a continuous flush during the chambering process to clear chips and keep the blank cool. But that is finer points.

Basically there are no short cuts. If you go full custom your going to be about $4250. If you build on a factory action it will be $3,xxx. Both can shoot just as accurate but extraction, loose bases, not being able to change barrels as easily, etc. can all be potential issues of the 700.

None of this is needed to hit a basketball sized target (deer kill zone) at 200 - 300 yards. The game I play we are trying to hit it at 800 -1000. Your not going to do that with every factory rifle.

With all that said the magic to accuracy is the ammunition. You have to have a good platform to start with, no doubt, but the true accuracy potential of ANY rifle will never be brought to the forefront unless you tune the ammo to the rifle. Pick your desired intention, then pick a bullet and work backwards.

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/...liber-to-Choose-Why-most-guys-do-it-backwards

 

[mickey]

+ another $150 to bush the firing pin hole and turn the firing pin on a Remmy bolt too.

 

[HogHunter1203]

... I'd bet the bolt handle is so bad out of spec on the camming surface of the primary extraction it may not even contact. ... will not build another rifle on a action that does not have an integral rail and recoil lug. I've had bases come loose on Rem 700 and custom actions that caused some head scratching in the accuracy department until we figured it out. To me it's not worth the headache With an integral lug I can swap barrels and know they will be headspaced correctly and not have to time the lug. [/url]

Hadn't considered the recoil lug issue... again, newbie. Out of curiosity, do you purchase your action, barrel blank, etc separately and have the barrel chamber reemed/gun assembled by a smith, ie Roscoe, GAP, or other? Or do you give them the desired specs and they assimilate and assemble? I had a discussion with William Roscoe a couple years ago when I lived up there and first became interested in long range shooting, and I've been wanting to do a build ever since. His input is largely why I chose 6.5 creedmoor for the current gas gun. Good guy and extremely knowledgeable, but at the time a lot of what he was staying was over my head; I've done some catching up since then.

 

[Barney88PDC]

I usually source my own parts and get them to assemble but either works.

 

[Ritten]

We need some Youtube videos......lots and lots of Youtube videos.

 

[HogHunter1203]

Youtube, Wikipedia, and Tweeter... hands down the best sources for locating accurate and unbiased information about any subject, ever on the interwebnet.

 

[mickey]

We need some Youtube videos......lots and lots of Youtube videos.

 

[bigjakewelch]

After you do all the work on a Rem 700 you still have a Rem 700. All be it it's a customized Rem 700, but when you sale it to buy a "true" custom action rifle, you're selling a Remington 700. In the wise words of "MickeyThe Great" "buy once, cry once". If you look at it as an investment and not just another toy you'll be better off in the long run. I talked with Jerry at Stiller Precision just the other day and he said they have actions on the shelf ready to ship. You can pick one of them up for around a grand +,-

 

[Jmfox3]

Barney88DC has a great write up. I'll give a little different spin, anything done to the gun behind the muzzle is intended to reduce the inconsistencies in harmonic vibrations once the trigger is pulled. Vibration reduction and consistency go hand-in-hand and make your groups smaller. You can never eliminate vibration and there are a bunch of high-speed videos out there that show barrel flex and vibration as the bullet travels down the muzzle. Even a heavy barrel that is cryogenically treated is mostly about improving harmonic vibration consistency. Given that you keep everything provided by the manufacturer on the firearm, I have found bedding the gun provides the biggest accuracy improvement. I had 1980s vintage Win 70 that I could not get into the broad side of a barn after a few years. I was ready to sell the gun but later found out that Winchester was using "hot glue" to bed the front lug in the 1980s. A homegrown bedding job did the trick. One mans opinion.

 

[LACamper]

What's scary is that there are benchrest shooters out there that would wonder what was wrong with a rifle that would only shoot .25 MOA groups. There's still room for improvement!

Accuracy is just a question of money and weight.

 

[Barry J]

This is the first in a series of truing a 700 action. Watched it last night. Interesting. Think there are 13 videos.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n191F9c1YiQ

 

[Barney88PDC]

Action
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,6767.html

http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,5128.html

http://www.otmtactical.com/SURGEON-591-RH-SHORT-ACTION-308-BOLT-FACE-_p_172.html

Or
http://bugholes.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=88_97_116

Barrel
http://www.grizzly.com/search?q=barrels

Or
http://bugholes.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=88_89

Or
http://www.otmtactical.com/BARRELS_c_13.html

Other parts
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,5124.html

 

[HogHunter1203]

This is the first in a series of truing a 700 action. Watched it last night. Interesting. Think there are 13 videos.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n191F9c1YiQ

Barry, I've seen those too. Interesting stuff.

 

[HogHunter1203]

Action
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,6767.html

http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,5128.html

http://www.otmtactical.com/SURGEON-591-RH-SHORT-ACTION-308-BOLT-FACE-_p_172.html

Or
http://bugholes.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=88_97_116

Barrel
http://www.grizzly.com/search?q=barrels

Or
http://bugholes.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=88_89

Or
http://www.otmtactical.com/BARRELS_c_13.html

Other parts
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,5124.html

Barney, my wife already dislikes you... I started saving with the idea of buying a surgeon action about 2 months ago. Any appreciable difference between surgeon and defiance in terms of ease of operation, reliability, etc?

 

[Barney88PDC]

Only real difference is the Deviant is cut to accept AW mags where as the Surgeon cannot. I like them both. Either works very well.

 

[HiCapMag]

Yall are making me think evil thoughts.....

 

[mickey]

And there is always BAT.
http://www.battacticalactions.com

 

[mickey]

Yall are making me think evil thoughts.....

You should treat yourself Bill. You Neeeeed a new stick.

 

[LACamper]

Not to mention http://www.nesikafirearms.com/