UPDATE: Cannizarro Refuses to Charge; A friend was involved in a shooting

[JWG223]

You don't have to be armed to cause reasonable fear in someone. Are you suggesting you must wait until you confirm they have a weapon before reacting? Sounds like a good way to get yourself killed.


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I'm saying that it sounds like an afterthought to a bad shoot. If he honestly thought that the kid was going for a weapon, okay, but I question that.

 

[JR1572]

You don't have to be armed to cause reasonable fear in someone. Are you suggesting you must wait until you confirm they have a weapon before reacting? Sounds like a good way to get yourself killed.


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True.

I'm saying that it sounds like an afterthought to a bad shoot. If he honestly thought that the kid was going for a weapon, okay, but I question that.

Yeah, it's kinda like that old South Park episode when they bring up the point if you say "it's coming right at us" you can shoot any animal you want and it's ok.

JR1572




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[LjDoIron]

Jack: I'm sorry. I went back to reread your quote. You are right (I think) Deadly force does pertain to the home owner. I still think though that in all of that quagmire of law, somewhere, it states that the home owner is expected or understood to be in fear of life. Frankly all of it started making my eyes cross. My only point was that you can use a single part of the law. And sometimes a single statement carries great weight. But subsections and additions further on may change the little part that pertains to you.

For example:

It's illegal to drink alcoholic beverages until you're 21.
BUT(!!!) if the post commander says otherwise, you *MAY* be allowed to drink alcoholic beverages as a US soldier on military property.

So taking that first statement is correct. But further reading will add a slight modifier.

Hence my belief that somewhere it states the home owner is automatically assumed to be in fear of life as pertaining to the parts you quoted.

That was my thought on the whole quoting law thing. Ronnie put the whole enchilada up there. I believe when we're promoting what is legal, in this case (us going to jail) it's extremely important to consider everything. Not just parts.


And oh my god, have I confused anybody else? Jack are you with me?

Is this what you were referencing? Enacted in 2006 it was dubbed "Shoot The Burglar"

RS 14:19​

§19. Use of force or violence in defense

A. The use of force or violence upon the person of another is justifiable when committed for the purpose of preventing a forcible offense against the person or a forcible offense or trespass against property in a person's lawful possession, provided that the force or violence used must be reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent such offense, and that this Section shall not apply where the force or violence results in a homicide.

B. For the purposes of this Section, there shall be a presumption that a person lawfully inside a dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle held a reasonable belief that the use of force or violence was necessary to prevent unlawful entry thereto, or to compel an unlawful intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle, if both of the following occur:
(1) The person against whom the force or violence was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.

(2) The person who used force or violence knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring or had occurred.
C. A person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and who is in a place where he or she has a right to be shall have no duty to retreat before using force or violence as provided for in this Section and may stand his or her ground and meet force with force.

D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used force or violence in defense of his person or property had a reasonable belief that force or violence was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a forcible offense or to prevent the unlawful entry.

Acts 2006, No. 141, §1.

 

[Neil09]

True.



Yeah, it's kinda like that old South Park episode when they bring up the point if you say "it's coming right at us" you can shoot any animal you want and it's ok.

JR1572




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Is it because hearing the "excuse" is getting old? Isn't that the main concern when in the situation, of course it's going to be used! I can't see how someone could question that, especially at 2:30am in the morning. Nobody knows, thats no reason to doubt it.

 

[oleheat]

So what weapon was he reaching for? How can you say that the lack of a weapon doesn't support the claim that he was not reaching for a weapon?

Don't know; wasn't there. What constitutes a weapon?

At any rate- Maybe there should be a mandatory grace period put in place to give the thieves time for more sensible options than a sudden jumpback, perhaps? How about fluorescent 'I'M ONLY HERE TO STEAL' t-shirts? Safety first.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I'm saying that it sounds like an afterthought to a bad shoot. If he honestly thought that the kid was going for a weapon, okay, but I question that.

Hindsight is 20/20. And what reason to you have to question it? Keep in mind this guy was awoken in the middle of the night, adrenalin blazing. Even if he made a "bad call" or was "mistaken", it's his belief at the time that matters and it's hard to hold him to a high standard when reacting to that situation that he was forced into.


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[Vermiform]

I always personalize these things and put myself in their shoes. I don't know if it is good or bad most of the time, but bear with me here.

It's 2am at YOUR house and YOU are awakened by the dog going apeshit at the front door. You grab your pistol and look out the window. Someone has climbed over your locked gate and is trying to break into your vehicle.

Now there is a very simple question here. Do you:

a) Call 911 and stay inside until the police arrive?
OR
b) Do you go outside and confront the burglar?

If you are still with me, outside that is, then you have a pistol in your hand and you're telling the burglar to stop or get lost or freeze! Ok.........now it's your turn to FREEZE. He's got his hands at his waistline fooling with something. Now what? What if he just starts aggressively coming toward you and you don't see any weapon? Now what?

 

[Mojo Rider]

Help me understand how the age of the criminal should matter. It's 2:30 in the morning, it's dark outside and you're trying to protect your life and property. How is the homeowner supposed to asses the criminals age and even if he could is a street hardened 14 year old thug any less dangerous than an 18 year old thug? When we hear that a 14 year old was shot while committing a crime we think of our own baby faced children or grandchildren but lets face it, after living on the street most of their lives some of these "boys in the hood" are 5' 11" and 195 and appear much older....especially in the dark when all you can see is their size. Has anyone seen a current, and I stress "current" picture of the thief?

 

[Neil09]

I will wait and see if he will let me search him when he gets near, unless he starts shooting before, then maybe I can really be in fear of my life then.

 

[JR1572]

A friend was involved in a shooting

I always personalize these things and put myself in their shoes. I don't know if it is good or bad most of the time, but bear with me here.

It's 2am at YOUR house and YOU are awakened by the dog going apeshit at the front door. You grab your pistol and look out the window. Someone has climbed over your locked gate and is trying to break into your vehicle.

Now there is a very simple question here. Do you:

a) Call 911 and stay inside until the police arrive?
OR
b) Do you go outside and confront the burglar?

If you are still with me, outside that is, then you have a pistol in your hand and you're telling the burglar to stop or get lost or freeze! Ok.........now it's your turn to FREEZE. He's got his hands at his waistline fooling with something. Now what? What if he just starts aggressively coming toward you and you don't see any weapon? Now what?

I stay inside and call the police. If I go out there and something happens to me (killed or rendered helpless) my wife and child are now in danger with no defense. The safety of my family is paramount.

ETA: I've been in more than a few fights with people breaking into things while I'm working. When I'm off my family are my priority.

JR1572


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[JWG223]

Hindsight is 20/20. And what reason to you have to question it? Keep in mind this guy was awoken in the middle of the night, adrenalin blazing. Even if he made a "bad call" or was "mistaken", it's his belief at the time that matters and it's hard to hold him to a high standard when reacting to that situation that he was forced into.


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If he really believes that he was about to be attacked, then I cannot blame him in the least. I'm simply expressing suspicion. I'm not the only one, either, apparently.

He fired one round and made an effective hit on what he claims was a moving target at 30 feet. Sounds like he was firing on all 8 cylinders to me...

 

[oleheat]

You wait until he shoots at you to comfirm he's armed and hope for the best, right? Sure as hell seems that's what's expected.


I get what you guys are saying. It's very easy to armchair something like this when it wasn't YOU.

I hope he walks. The simple truth is,
IT WAS THE THIEF who placed
everyone involved in this predicament. I'm not willing to view this little SOB as a "victim". I'm sure we'll hear from him again, one way or another.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Help me understand how the age of the criminal should matter. It's 2:30 in the morning, it's dark outside and you're trying to protect your life and property. How is the homeowner supposed to asses the criminals age and even if he could is a street hardened 14 year old thug any less dangerous than an 18 year old thug? When we hear that a 14 year old was shot while committing a crime we think of our own baby faced children or grandchildren but lets face it, after living on the street most of their lives some of these "boys in the hood" are 5' 11" and 195 and appear much older....especially in the dark when all you can see is their size. Has anyone seen a current, and I stress "current" picture of the thief?

I'm sure this is the most wholesome picture the media could come up with.

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[mcinfantry]

If he really believes that he was about to be attacked, then I cannot blame him in the least. I'm simply expressing suspicion. I'm not the only one, either, apparently.

He fired one round and made an effective hit on what he claims was a moving target at 30 feet. Sounds like he was firing on all 8 cylinders to me...

Could be a well trained tactical holster sniffer.

Took some classes, hangs out with cops? Says all the catch phrases 'I feared for my life' ' I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident' ' MOLON LAVE'

Not like they don't exist.

But I'm just a street cop, from 100 years ago.


ΜΟΡΟΝ ΛΑΒΙΑ

 

[oleheat]

That was his older brother, I believe. He was 23.

The report claims he 'raised his seven siblings' after the father died (the 14y/o was the second-youngest).

Setting the table....

 

[JWG223]

You wait until he shoots at you to comfirm he's armed and hope for the best, right? Sure as hell seems that's what's expected.


I get what you guys are saying. It's very easy to armchair something like this when it wasn't YOU.

I hope he walks. The simple truth is,
IT WAS THE THIEF who placed
everyone involved in this predicament. I'm not willing to view this little SOB as a "victim". I'm sure we'll hear from him again, one way or another.

I agree that the thief is to blame for everything. However, if he didn't truly feel threatened...he is wrong. Who's to say? Like you note...we weren't there. Regardless, its not wise to dick with someone's property. Something could happen to you...

 

[SpeedRacer]

If he really believes that he was about to be attacked, then I cannot blame him in the least. I'm simply expressing suspicion. I'm not the only one, either, apparently.

He fired one round and made an effective hit on what he claims was a moving target at 30 feet. Sounds like he was firing on all 8 cylinders to me...

Wow. Because I'm sure the kid was standing erect and this regular dude nailed a headshot at 10 yards, in the dark, adrenalin pumping, on a moving target.

Or maybe we have no idea what happened or what exactly the kid was doing when the shot happened. For all you know the homeowner was aiming at his leg and just really, really sucked.

We have NO idea what exactly went down. I understand we're all speculating, but how you can fill in the blanks on behalf of the criminal is a mystery to me.


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[oleheat]

I am not willing to say I know what he felt, either, man.

That's something only he knows, at this point.

And i agree. If it isn't yours, leave it alone.

 

[mcinfantry]

I hope he gets off. Seriously.



ΜΟΡΟΝ ΛΑΒΙΑ

 

[SpeedRacer]

That was his older brother, I believe. He was 23.

The report claims he 'raised his seven siblings' after the father died (the 14y/o was the second-youngest).

Setting the table....

You are correct. The mobile version didn't have any info, just that as the lead photo so I assumed.


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