Vest/armor effectiveness?

[rhettro]

I was just wanting a little education on vest/body armor effectiveness. It is just a curiosity thing. Not wanting any belive me. But was wondering with recent happenings, what can be done against it? anything? Would it just be a helpless situation? Would shots at least knock the perp around or knock the wind out of him? I'll have to look it up but, during the North Hollywood shootout it seems like I remember the LEOs getting desperate and acquiring hunting rifles from a store to be more effective against the body armor. Is this correct? Just a very scary scenario to me.

 

[Suburbazine]

I was just wanting a little education on vest/body armor effectiveness. It is just a curiosity thing. Not wanting any belive me. But was wondering with recent happenings, what can be done against it? anything? Would it just be a helpless situation? Would shots at least knock the perp around or knock the wind out of him? I'll have to look it up but, during the North Hollywood shootout it seems like I remember the LEOs getting desperate and acquiring hunting rifles from a store to be more effective against the body armor. Is this correct? Just a very scary scenario to me.

Body armor isn't invincibility gear. Level IIIa without a plate behind it will result in a nasty bruise or broken rib if you get tagged with a .40 caliber pistol round. With plates, it would feel like someone hitting you with a paddle.

While the bullet doesn't penetrate in either situation (no bleeding) the kinetic energy is generally transferred to the hit area.

The only armor I know of that leaves you operational after a few hits is DragonSkin. I've heard stories from contractors doing line work in Iraq taking multiple sniper rounds to the back while climbing down a pole.

 

[LACamper]

But I thought there were problems with dragonskin? Susceptible to upward shots or something? Not to mention availability to civilians.

rhetro, the cops did get rifles from the local gun shops. IIRC they got in trouble after for not enforcing the waiting period and running background checks.

 

[rhettro]

That's what I was wondering. But with a high powered rifle(.30-06,.308, or whatever) its a different ballgame?

 

[rhettro]

...

Really? They got in trouble? Oh well, California huh? haha

 

[rhettro]

...

"The only armor I know of that leaves you operational after a few hits is DragonSkin. I've heard stories from contractors doing line work in Iraq taking multiple sniper rounds to the back while climbing down a pole."

Jeez! Talk about knock the wind out of you!!!!

 

[gbundersea]

I got into a Facebook dicussion about the theater shooting. A libtard on there was saying that since the guy wore body armor that any "responsible" CCW holder, had they even been there, would "hopefully have realized it was futile and left their weapon holstered." I pointed out (just like Suburbazine) that body armor is not an invincibility shield, and found a pretty interesting LEO study regarding injuries suffered by officers shot in the line of duty while wearing armor. Here's the link to the study.

IMO, someone aggressively delivering return fire would have very possibly had a great effect on the shooter, both physically and psychologically, and may have drastically altered the outcome.

 

[some_goat]

High velocity rounds will go through Kevlar like butter (7.62 , 5.56 , 308 , ect) . Put a plate behind it and its another story for a few rounds . This is of course minus AP rounds , to which they have a thinker style of plate to combat those as well . And when I say plate I mean a ceramic upper body insert that breaks if you drop it hard enough .

 

[Knave]

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14523

Big information source about the Dragon Skin debacle. TLDR version: No big conspiracy against it, apparently Dragon Skin just simply did not/does not do what it was claimed to do..

 

[JWG223]

just YouTube it. Plenty of idiots shooting themselves in the back yard. Observe the results.

 

[LACamper]

I got into a FB argument last night with a liberal 'friend' of mine from high school about the shooting. Liberals just can't argue. He got mad and blocked me when he realized he was on the loosing end... whiny sob...

 

[Sugarbug]

But I thought there were problems with dragonskin? Susceptible to upward shots or something? Not to mention availability to civilians.

rhetro, the cops did get rifles from the local gun shops. IIRC they got in trouble after for not enforcing the waiting period and running background checks.

Dragonskin is just the modern version of scale armor. Direct blows or blows coming from above, are distributed among the many scales. However, a blow coming upward from below (perhaps a shot from the bottom of a hill to the top) will slide between the scales making almost as if it were not there. It's still some amazing stuff. (just read the review link... apparently not so amazing). I only remember it from future weapons and they shot the **** out of it with no penetration issues. Sounds like a quality control issue, however the diesel fuel issue is a big problem.

 

[Hitman]

That was pretty much my point in the other topic. Wearing a Flak Vest with shoulder pads and leggings is not a ‘Ballistical EOD Combat Ready IronMan Nuclear Survival Suit’ - Pretty much how folks HERE and the media were describing what he had on.

While an advantage yes, it doesn't make him unstoppable. Plus these vest work great for head on squared up shots to the center chest. Plus you'd have to have the mindset to TAKE shots and return fire - Not Likely for an untrained Loon!

Not a great idea to engage someone dressed out in it, but if you HAD to, it’s possible for sure especially with someone not expecting the SLAM of Lead bullets flying at 1000+ FPS.

You don’t brush that **** off like nothing happen b/c you're simply wearing a Flak Vest.

 

[returningliberty]

The one thing no one has said yet is even with body armor, you're still taking 300-500 ft*lbs of energy every time you get hit. That's the equivalent of getting beat on with a baseball bat. It's takes training and willpower to remain functional under that kind of ass whoopin. And eventually the armor will reach it's failure point. By then he'd probably be crying on the ground with 8 dudes pinning his arms anyway.

 

[Knave]

Ultimately the way I look at it is:

Certain factors pertaining to my level of preparedness are under my control.
Everything else is outside of my control.

I don't wear an IBA when I leave the house even though I would be better prepared against a gun-toting assailant. I don't carry an AK even though I would be better prepared against an armored assailant. I don't bring a gas mask even though I would be better prepared against a chemical attack.

What I do bring with me when I leave the house, I hope and pray, is the ability to recognize grave danger and the fortitude to resist it to the utmost. I usually have certain tools on my body to aid me in facing that danger should that time ever come. One of those tools is usually a pair of pants. I would hate to have to face grave danger without even having pants on. Another is a pistol. There are others, but none of them are guaranteed to be with me or guaranteed to work. I can't control what danger comes my way, and I can't control whether or not my tools will give me enough of an edge to defeat it.

But as long as it's within my control, I I hope and pray that I always bring with me the ability to recognize grave danger and the fortitude to resist it to the utmost.

 

[Suburbazine]

The one thing no one has said yet is even with body armor, you're still taking 300-500 ft*lbs of energy every time you get hit. That's the equivalent of getting beat on with a baseball bat. It's takes training and willpower to remain functional under that kind of ass whoopin. And eventually the armor will reach it's failure point. By then he'd probably be crying on the ground with 8 dudes pinning his arms anyway.

I said that. Lol