Vtac streetfighter (4/19-21/13) aar

[olivs260]

I think it's pretty obvious that your rifle is junk and you suffer severely from OCD.

But in seriousness, have you tried only loading them up to 28 or 29 rounds? I'm far from an expert, but I could imagine too much pressure from the spring inside the magazine making it more difficult for the round to be extracted. Forgive me if I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[JWG223]

I think it's pretty obvious that your rifle is junk and you suffer severely from OCD.

But in seriousness, have you tried only loading them up to 28 or 29 rounds? I'm far from an expert, but I could imagine too much pressure from the spring inside the magazine making it more difficult for the round to be extracted. Forgive me if I don't know what I'm talking about.

Who knows, it stripped the top rounds just fine when I tested it an hour or so ago. I think something dynamic is to blame, as it doesn't do it nearly all the time, nor does it appear to be struggling/on the brink of doing it every time.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I'd like to figure out what's going on, as well, but the fact that the rifle runs fine with them sometimes on reloads, and not at others, and has NEVER had an issue running them dynamically, just on reloads, is what confuses me.

Is there user error of some sort? I have induced a double-feed before because the magazine lost control of the top round on a reload once. So I am currently leaning toward first-round presentation geometry being a possible issue after riding in my mag-pouch for a while, or maybe I snag the tip of the round extracting the mag, I don't know. I'd like to spend some time working it out, because I can't see it being the rifle because it does 100% with them EXCEPT on the first round from bolt-release. Anyway, I'd like to use them some more before I ditch them.

Top round from an open bolt, the mag spring is applying maximum force and the BCG is being pushed forward with minimal force. The metal feedlips do have more resistance than plastic ones would. Although I've never had an issue, I can notice a difference in the feed resistance between brand new Lancers and those that have been broken in a bit. If your mags are new, I bet a couple swipes on the feed lips with some 400 grit sandpaper would fix the problem (basically bypassing a "break-in" period).

To recreate the situation, I'd do some reloads from lockback while loosely holding the rifle (like unshouldered just barely holding the grip). Dropping the BCG from lockback does not have the same force as when it's fully cycling. And based on when you were having the issues, that combined with more loss of force due to the rifle not being fully supported may have been just enough for the BCG to not have the oomph to get passed any resistance at the feedlips.

The only other potential resistance would be at the BCG. I know you like MPro (I used to too) but I don't think it's the best lube by any means.

 

[JWG223]

Top round from an open bolt, the mag spring is applying maximum force and the BCG is being pushed forward with minimal force. The metal feedlips do have more resistance than plastic ones would. Although I've never had an issue, I can notice a difference in the feed resistance between brand new Lancers and those that have been broken in a bit. If your mags are new, I bet a couple swipes on the feed lips with some 400 grit sandpaper would fix the problem (basically bypassing a "break-in" period).

To recreate the situation, I'd do some reloads from lockback while loosely holding the rifle (like unshouldered just barely holding the grip). Dropping the BCG from lockback does not have the same force as when it's fully cycling. And based on when you were having the issues, that combined with more loss of force due to the rifle not being fully supported may have been just enough for the BCG to not have the oomph to get passed any resistance at the feedlips.

The only other potential resistance would be at the BCG. I know you like MPro (I used to too) but I don't think it's the best lube by any means.

I think break-in might be a part of it.

I think an AR should be able to run 100% dry until it gets dirty. That's how companies test them before shipping. Any failures = back to the bench to see what's wrong. All of my SDI rifles arrived 100% chemically de-greased and with brass markings on the deflectors. I don't think the MPRO=7LPX was the cause of failures as I've run the gun way dirtier with twice as many rounds through it on that lube with no problems using the Lancers. Come to think of it, the issue I had with them in VTAC 1.5 was on day one, as well. Maybe it is a break-in proceedure, and maybe PMC XTAC uses softer brass than others, exacerbating the issue.

Very well could be the issue with an un-supported rifle.

Lots of stuff. I need to check it out when I'm not running drills if it does it to see EXACTLY what the round looks like in there, etc.

 

[HiCapMag]

Nice report.

I would like to hear more about why you thought the VFG was so helpful.

Thanks

 

[Dishonored]

Nice report.

I would like to hear more about why you thought the VFG was so helpful.

Thanks

I would imagine it served a very useful purpose when it came to one hand/arm manipulation.
As vertical/straight walled rear sights do on a handgun. I know on my glock the flat rear sight opens a door for manipulating the slide one handed.
Maybe another reason though.

 

[JWG223]

I would imagine it served a very useful purpose when it came to one hand/arm manipulation.
As vertical/straight walled rear sights do on a handgun. I know on my glock the flat rear sight opens a door for manipulating the slide one handed.
Maybe another reason though.

Yep. The VFG is something every rifle should have whether your hand ever touches it or not.

Assume my left arm (or right) has been injured in an auto-crash. I know I am not LE/MIL, so this is a stretch for me, but for our troops overseas, this is VERY real. Maybe it was an IED. Maybe a stray bullet caught my shoulder in the beginning of an ambush. Whatever the case, one arm is done for the time being, and I am pinned down by fire from 2-300 yards behind my vehicle while another enemy asset closes in for all I know. I would like to return fire from cover (preferably using the engine-block/a heavy disk brake rotor, etc.) accurately at 2-300 yards. This position would allow me to shelter behind the engine block and rim/brake rotor and shoot under the front bumper, exposing very little to an adversary. The trick with the VFG, is you pull the rifle toward yourself and create tension between it and your ankle. It's remarkably stable. Got an AFG? Nothing? Dunno how well that will work. This isn't the entire tool-box, but it is a handy little tool to have IN the tool-box that has its niche.

*Thanks to my Bigcat for photography

 

[SpeedRacer]

"Anyone who tells you they don't need a vertical foregrip on their rifle has never been in a gunfight." - Kyle Lamb

I was one of those guys but figured (luckily) I'd give the VFG thing a try at the class. Good thing too, I used it 100 different ways and now can't imagine not having one. It has little to do with just standing there shooting (although there's benefits there as well), and everything to do with all the other fun positions you may find yourself in.

 

[JWG223]

"Anyone who tells you they don't need a vertical foregrip on their rifle has never been in a gunfight." - Kyle Lamb

I was one of those guys but figured (luckily) I'd give the VFG thing a try at the class. Good thing too, I used it 100 different ways and now can't imagine not having one. It has little to do with just standing there shooting (although there's benefits there as well), and everything to do with all the other fun positions you may find yourself in.

+1

I learned so absurdly much in those 3 days.

 

[JWG223]

I wanted to re-visit my weapon/mag failures. Here is my old Noveske compared to my new Daniel Defense. Same mag used in each picture, empty shell-casings used for safety reasons of course, but that doesn't matter for the sake of these photos.
vDaniel Defense

^Noveske

 

[kz45]

What does this mean?

 

[SpeedRacer]

What does this mean?

From what I can tell the mag sits too low in the Noveske lower. My guess is the PMags worked because the polymer feed lips would give way enough to allow the round to feed, whereas the metal Lancers wouldn't. It would also cause undue stress on the feed lips and I'd bet cause issues over time.

The point is for months JWG insisted it was a mag problem while we insisted it was his fancy pants rifle causing the issue. I guess now we know.

 

[JWG223]

From what I can tell the mag sits too low in the Noveske lower. My guess is the PMags worked because the polymer feed lips would give way enough to allow the round to feed, whereas the metal Lancers wouldn't. It would also cause undue stress on the feed lips and I'd bet cause issues over time.

The point is for months JWG insisted it was a mag problem while we insisted it was his fancy pants rifle causing the issue. I guess now we know.

I've got no argument. The evidence was on the range and in pictures in front of you. I've already sold and replaced the rifle with a quality firearm from Daniel Defense that doesn't suffer such foibles. No room in my gear storage for Noveske if I can help it. Still have an out of spec factory SBR fro them, though

Upper has a 8MOA POI shift with my SF can (I sent both to SF and they ran multiple mounts, cans, my can on other guns, etc. and the upper was the issue) and the lower is out of spec and won't fit other uppers. **** them.

 

[swamper]

This is my Noveske N4 for comparison. I use Lancers and haven't had any issues.

ETA: After skimming the first page again, the only thing I can see that may be different is that I probably have mine lubed more? I dunno. All I know is that my stuff is wet.

 

[SpeedRacer]

This is my Noveske N4 for comparison. I use Lancers and haven't had any issues.

Obviously the dirt helps align the bolt carrier.

 

[swamper]

Obviously the dirt helps align the bolt carrier.

That too. I'm trying out 'Nilla Gorilla's keep it dirty and wet idea.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Dirty and wet is the way to go. Voice of expirence.

 

[JR1572]

Dirty and wet is the way to go. Voice of expirence.

Yep, I just don't roll a VFG.

JR1572

 

[Pas Tout La]

So how often, if ever, are you weapons cleaned? Assuming that dity and wet applies to all firearms and not just ARs.

 

[JWG223]

This is my Noveske N4 for comparison. I use Lancers and haven't had any issues.

ETA: After skimming the first page again, the only thing I can see that may be different is that I probably have mine lubed more? I dunno. All I know is that my stuff is wet.

There is definitely more case-rim being contacted by your bolt. Considering I only have failures once every 3-500 rounds or so on reloads, I think that this sliver of difference might be what makes the difference.