Wash. State Suing Christian Florist After She Refuses to Provide Flowers for Gay Wedd

[CEHollier]

I think it's equally shitty if churches and parishioners are unable to practice their religion as they see fit because of this, but I think it's illogical to think it would change if we simply allow civil unions as equal to marriage or allow same-sex marriage.

I mean, the Westboro Baptist Church is still tax-exempt and most certainly engages in hate speech against the military and gays, and they're still a-ok and actually get police protection.

I see no logical expectation of erosion of First Amendment protections on people's rights. In fact, making a law to respect and support Christianity specifically, imo, would be an equal violation of the First Amendment restriction on Congress, and through incorporation, the States.

Who would have thought a photographer would be sued because they refuse to do something that violates their beliefs? Just saying we are on a downward slope.

 

[SpeedRacer]

The seperation of church and state comes to mind...

 

[JNieman]

The seperation of church and state comes to mind...

This is just a sticky situation though where they violate it no matter which way they go.

 

[madwabbit]

Depends on which Church you talk to, I've known some who've preached vehemently that single-parent homes are the reason the nation is as bad off, and that the foster system would be healthier because the kids would be in a "loving, mother and father environment"

you obviously have ZERO experience with the state foster system. this comment was so absurd that I'm not even giving it my usual text wall.

 

[SpeedRacer]

This is just a sticky situation though where they violate it no matter which way they go.

Then err on the side of extending liberty and freedom. If you **** of some Christians in the process, oh well.

For the record I'm not pro gay marriage. I don't give a crap about gay marriage. Let 'em join in on the misery. Gays getting married does not affect my life in the slightest, nor offends any of my sensibilities. Even if it did, I'm certainly not gonna restrict someone elses freedoms because I don't like it or think they are yucky.

 

[JNieman]

you obviously have ZERO experience with the state foster system. this comment was so absurd that I'm not even giving it my usual text wall.

Not this state no, but I'm not sure what you take offense with in my statement. I extolled no opinion on the foster system myself, but instead extended some statements/stances I've heard from various churches.

 

[madwabbit]

I dont give a **** if they get married. I give a **** when they tell others that we have to acknowledge them, and impose their beliefs onto others and such.

If I'm offended at them sticking each others wankers in their mouths, they say "go to hell"

to which I say: if they are offended when I refuse service "just because", i say "go to hell" back.

 

[JNieman]

Then err on the side of extending liberty and freedom. If you **** of some Christians in the process, oh well.

For the record I'm not pro gay marriage. I don't give a crap about gay marriage. Let 'em join in on the misery. Gays getting married does not affect my life in the slightest, nor offends any of my sensibilities. Even if it did, I'm certainly not gonna restrict someone elses freedoms because I don't like it or think they are yucky.

I agree.. if they're forced into making a decision, it should be on the side of personal freedom for the people.

 

[madwabbit]

Not this state no, but I'm not sure what you take offense with in my statement. I extolled no opinion on the foster system myself, but instead extended some statements/stances I've heard from various churches.

I've got first hand experience with foster systems in two states. I'm man enough to admit that im not emotionally strong enough to endure it. I've been through a lot, but I've never spent so many sleepless nights contemplating removing some of these scumbag "parents" from the face of the earth.

Suffice it to say that if you consider my opinion on any subject a pile of spewed manure, talk to some people involved. My opinion on gays is apparent and obvious- and if the kids in the state foster system should end up in the home of a middle-income, loving, and level-headed homosexual couple, I say they should all be so lucky.

 

[Hitman]

It's interesting that as Heterosexuals we think we know more about what Homosexuals want when Homosexuals themselves can't even settle on the issue. (myself included here)


Just Google Gays against Gay marriage and see where that takes you.

It's full of this, as the Facebook states;

Gays Against Gay Marriage is for all Gays who do NOT want the same rights as everyone else. Being Gay is our choice and if we wanted equal rights, we would be straight

I think it's b/c many homosexuals clearly understand that the FAMILY has been the cornerstone of civilizations since the dawn of civilizations. How could it not be?(Without the FAMILY they wouldn't be here)

This is also why Governments have always favored and rewarded the family with incentives and tax breaks etc. B/c the FAMILY is what will allow the civilization to go on being a civilization. FAMILY is vitally beneficial to society. Without FAMILY, there is no FUTURE to the Civilization. Clearly homosexuals cannot produce the future of civilizations. Therefore they are not given the same incentives as the FAMILY.

 

[madwabbit]

It's interesting that as Heterosexuals we think we no more about what Homosexuals want when Homosexuals themselves can't even settle on the issue.

Just Google Gays against Gay marriage and see where that takes you.

It's full of this, as the Facebook states;



I think it's b/c most homosexuals clearly understand that the FAMILY has been the cornerstone of civilizations since the dawn of civilizations. How could it not be?(Without the FAMILY they wouldn't be here)

This is also why Governments have always favored and rewarded the family with incentives and tax breaks etc. B/c the FAMILY is what will allow the civilization to go on being a civilization. FAMILY is vitally beneficial to society. Without FAMILY, there is no FUTURE to the Civilization. Clearly homosexuals cannot produce the future of civilizations. Therefore they are not given the same incentives as the FAMILY.

now THAT i have respect for. "screw your equality crap, this is our choice." ...more power to ya gentlemen.

 

[JNieman]

Then it sounds like your experiences are similar to mine. Which is why I thought it abhorrent of a church to say that my home is worse than a foster home because I'm a single parent. I found it to be a vile and disgusting condemnation. Luckily I don't give a **** what their opinion was, but it's a bit of a lesson how some people allow their religious text to blind them to accomplishing the true goals of society. When you let the words blind you, you forget about the goal the rules try to accomplish, and sometimes sabotage yourself worse than you would by bending/breaking the rules.

 

[JNieman]

@Hitman: do you honestly think that "Gays against Gay Marriage" (Do they mention whether they want civil unions held as equal as marriage?) is the majority?

Just finding a group with an opinion does not mean they represent the entire population any more than finding "Occupy the NRA" on Facebook means that the majority of Americans want the NRA abolished.

 

[madwabbit]

from strictly a scientific and psychological state, YES I do believe that children need the influence of a man and a woman. Men and women physiologically function, think, and operate much differently, and it is this "balance" that creates a stable child.

I also believe that any individual parent aware of this need for stability and balance has the capability to provide it to a child, regardless of the genitalia occupying their undergarments.

ie: (humor alert)

MOM response to a childhood "fight": "why aren't you and your friend getting along? Did you talk to him about it before you picked a fight?"

DAD response to a childhood "fight": "bob and weave son, jab jab uppercut."

 

[Hitman]

now THAT i have respect for. "screw your equality crap, this is our choice." ...more power to ya gentlemen.

The gays I know are like that. They live together, love each other, share their home, power of attorney and all that jazz and have no desire to be told by a panel of judges whether or not they approve or not.

They have no care about getting married. Means nothing to them and DOES NOT prevent them from doing what they want.

 

[Hitman]

@Hitman: do you honestly think that "Gays against Gay Marriage" (Do they mention whether they want civil unions held as equal as marriage?) is the majority?
.

That's the point!

They don't represent the Homosexual Community as a whole, and neither does the other side of the community who want gay marriage.

Now I find it strangely interesting that you are appealing from majority?

Should the Majority rule?

 

[JNieman]

I also believe that any individual parent aware of this need for stability and balance has the capability to provide it to a child, regardless of the genitalia occupying their undergarments.

Bingo.

A kid needs all sorts of role models to learn the proper example of being a good human. I don't think a mom/dad alone is even enough for that. I think a healthy and mentally well adjusted kid needs non-family influences to help sculpt their upbringing in society if for no other reason than that kids will eventually rebel naturally and not want to do anything like mom/dad do, and may take it better from a non-parental role model. That's another topic for another time though

 

[madwabbit]

Bingo.

A kid needs all sorts of role models to learn the proper example of being a good human. I don't think a mom/dad alone is even enough for that. I think a healthy and mentally well adjusted kid needs non-family influences to help sculpt their upbringing in society if for no other reason than that kids will eventually rebel naturally and not want to do anything like mom/dad do, and may take it better from a non-parental role model. That's another topic for another time though

agreed!

 

[JNieman]

Here's an unfortunate incident I alluded to earlier where family members keep trumping same-sex couples. These guys did everything they could like madwabbit mentioned - granting power of attorney, and using other aspects of the legal system to try and get the other benefits that are granted almost automatically to different-sex couples:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/...t-hospital-for-refusing-to-leave-gay-partner/

A gay man was arrested at a hospital in Missouri this week when he refused to leave the bedside of his partner, and now a restraining order is preventing him from any type of visitation.

Roger Gorley told WDAF that even though he has power of attorney to handle his partner’s affairs, a family member asked him to leave when he visited Research Medical Center in Kansas City on Tuesday.

Gorley said he refused to leave his partner Allen’s bedside, and that’s when security put him in handcuffs and escorted him from the building.

*I was not recognized as being the husband, I wasn’t recognized as being the partner,* Gorley explained.

He said the nurse refused to confirm that the couple shared power of attorney and made medical decision for each other.

And now, because of the restraining order - guess what? There went his gun rights, too.

Yup. No civil rights problems or implications here.


How many of us would go silently if we were required to leave our wife's side in the hospital at the request of her aunt, your mother in law, or a sister of hers?

I know I slept in the hospital for 3 days straight when my then-wife was in after her caesarian birth of our son.

 

[madwabbit]

heh quite the opposite, it was ME that threw THEM out. medical power of attorney -should- trump all. I'd encourage them to keep records on their person during such situations.