What's with all the LEO bashing?

[madwabbit]

Come on man. . You might be a little too sensitive. I mean for crying out loud. . You guys aren't performing brain surgery. It's not rocket science. . Of course people have opinions it's in all walks of life. Unfortunately some of you LEO are so arrogant you think no one can possibly know anything unless they have patrolled in a police unit. . I mean really. .

please defer to my recent post - I'd like your thoughts.

 

[jmcrawf1]

So basically anyone with a clean record no or very limited drug use, physically fit enough to pass the fitness test amd have a pulse. . I mean it's not mission impossible is my point. Which is why traditionally wages are lower. I'm really not getting to be a horses ass but you can see what I'm getting at.

We see it. A douchebag attempt at police bashing.

And your second in this thread...


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[Peacemaker]

That sparks an interesting debate. What requirements would you propose? Are you, as a tax payer, willing to pay increased taxes for further educational requirements for civil service employees?

Speaking personally, I'll tell you that two of the dispatchers in my po-dunk PD are graduate degree educators working part time. 2 of the reservists are 6 figure plus earning executive managers during their day jobs- which required post graduate degrees. Do these folks do the job any better than those without the educational background?

No way, not even close. It's an education all of its own, and what "they know" cannot be taught in a book or classroom. - its very unique.

I'm for anything that would put more professional smarter people in uniform on patrol. I mean look at NOPD lowering requirements. . How do you think that's going to play out? More gun waving in line at the local Grammer school? pickup

 

[Peacemaker]

We see it. A douchebag attempt at police bashing.

And your second in this thread...


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I'm not bashing anyone. . I'm simply saying it like I see it.. Some of you guys are just too sensitive and arrogant.

 

[Jack]

I think some non LEOs are way too quick to step in and say ______ was done wrong, when they don't understand what is actually happening. I also think some LEOs are way too quick to say that non LEOs don't understand what is happening when they chime in on these kinds of things. You don't need to be a cop to say that if you were on the recently posted stop for the "stolen car" and you believed the people in the car, you think you would've gone back and ran the plate number or vin number again, to confirm it was the right one. If someone tells me something and I believe them(as the officers apparently did), I would make sure my t's are crossed, both for my sake and theirs. This has nothing to do with LE work, this has to do with how I treat things in life.

The concept that it is a problem on here when someone says an officer screwed up is simply wrong. If you don't think anyone could possibly understand anything someone in your profession does wrong without having done it, you are crazy. This applies to all professions. Some things are pretty black and white. I don't need anyone on here to tell me an officer filing a false police report is wrong, just like I don't need anyone on here to tell me that the direct TV guy did something wrong if his foot comes through my ceiling.

The other side of this is that there are a lot of guys who chime in on gray area stuff that they don't understand. This is especially true for threads involving short grainy clips of video shot from on perspective and news articles lacking substance. They are quick to input their bias in lieu of facts and run where they want. They are also hesitant to comment on the positive things they saw. The lady with the crutches made a really dumb move by quickly ducking into the car and coming back out with something long and metal, but I didn't see anyone commenting on the officers response.

 

[ta2d_cop]

Come on man. . You might be a little too sensitive. I mean for crying out loud. . You guys aren't performing brain surgery. It's not rocket science. . Of course people have opinions it's in all walks of life. Unfortunately some of you LEO are so arrogant you think no one can possibly know anything unless they have patrolled in a police unit. . I mean really. .

And some NON LEOs are so anti they are blinded by their bias and incapable of applying the same rational thought they accuse the LEOs of not using.

Funny how that works out, isn't it? If you hate cops, why not just own it instead of beating around the bush about it. I personally don't care what your opinion of LE is. I know what I have done in my career. I also know cops aren't popular. I knew that 14 years ago when I came on the job.

And how do you know what it involves? You slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night? or you got a buddy who has a sister who dated a cop? I'm sure you wouldn't make assumptions, but rather base your opinion on facts and personal experience for credibility right?

 

[madwabbit]

I'm for anything that would put more professional smarter people in uniform on patrol. I mean look at NOPD lowering requirements. . How do you think that's going to play out? More gun waving in line at the local Grammer school? pickup

As I look at the armed services landing page, the criteria to apply isn't much different. In fact, its easier to get into the US Army (they'll do a background waiver for misdemeanors, the PD will not). What skills or background requirements specifically would you recommend them raise? You're making general attacks without proposing a solution. If you're calling the US armed forces underqualified, I'd cordially recommend that you word that very tactfully. Similarly, too much of their necessary field knowledge is unable to be taught in a classroom - its learned in the field. Specifically, what do you suggest?

Ie: I watched five episodes of "to catch a contractor" - so I think the state should mandate specific training regarding licensing, and it should be billed to the contractors agency as a credit against business declared exemptions. I know nothing about the career or industry, but I have a negative presumption based on what I've seen.

Problem + solution. I dont pretend that its a correct answer, but its a suggestion. Whats yours regarding raising standards for law enforcement?


afterthought: The guy that built my house didn't graduate high school. But he did dang fine work, and got paid well for it. Maybe his field knowledge contributed more to his successful business than his educational history? Would a college grad without field experience do a better job? At a similar price? hmm

 

[Peacemaker]

Not to be insensitive, but a chimp can bang a hammer and nails, right? You need less creds to run a construction company than to be a cop. How many felons do you employ or work with? What is the ratio of crooked contractors to crooked cops? I've seen numerous high school dropouts and convicted felons with contractor licenses. I've seen far more contractors get sued and arrested than cops in the past 10 years but I don't make broad and ridiculous assumptions about them. Nor do I assume that because I watched a you tube video about building a deck or fence I know everything about being a contractor.

But you're not a cop hater or anything, that is obvious by your little "not to be insensitive" disclaimer.

see there ya go. . Everyone had an opinion.

 

[Peacemaker]

As I look at the armed services landing page, the criteria to apply isn't much different. In fact, its easier to get into the US Army (they'll do a background waiver for misdemeanors, the PD will not). What skills or background requirements specifically would you recommend them raise? You're making general attacks without proposing a solution. If you're calling the US armed forces underqualified, I'd cordially recommend that you word that very tactfully.

Ie: I watched five episodes of "to catch a contractor" - so I think the state should mandate specific training regarding licensing, and it should be billed to the contractors agency as a credit against business declared exemptions. I know nothing about the career or industry, but I have a negative presumption based on what I've seen.

Problem + solution. I dont pretend that its a correct answer, but its a suggestion. Whats yours regarding raising standards for law enforcement?

Start by raising the standard and raise the aptitude requirements. . Also some sensitivity training might go a long way in helping.

 

[3fifty7]

Do some work for 1 hour and I missed all this...

 

[Barry J]

I get tired of the donut jokes. Thirty years ago, there were no convenience stores that stayed open all night so LE had to go to a donut shop for coffee. They opened earlier than anyone else. If I would eat as many donuts as I have been accused of eating, I would weigh 500 pounds.

 

[madwabbit]

Start by raising the standard and raise the aptitude requirements. . Also some sensitivity training might go a long way in helping.

I completed state mandated "sensitivity training" in december, among a handful of other required training courses. It wasn't required to know it just to apply, it was required to pass it to stay employed. In fact, the required training this year alone looks to be ~30 courses. I'll bet the full timers have far more than I do, since I only have to take the minimum required. This is more than I require of my employees at my day job, and they start at roughly double an officers salary. I'm not speaking hypothetically.

So, we (officers) already do what you suggested, maybe you were unaware of that. What else would you recommend or like to know?

 

[whitsend]

This thread started out with some good discussion, now keep it cordial or more infractions will be given.
That applies to both sides of the debate.

 

[Peacemaker]

And some NON LEOs are so anti they are blinded by their bias and incapable of applying the same rational thought they accuse the LEOs of not using.

Funny how that works out, isn't it? If you hate cops, why not just own it instead of beating around the bush about it. I personally don't care what your opinion of LE is. I know what I have done in my career. I also know cops aren't popular. I knew that 14 years ago when I came on the job.

And how do you know what it involves? You slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night? or you got a buddy who has a sister who dated a cop? I'm sure you wouldn't make assumptions, but rather base your opinion on facts and personal experience for credibility right?

I stand by all previous posts. You guys are incredibly sensitive. I believe the wages are low because the requirements to be am leo are low and easy to fill. Yes the scrutiny is high because you have powers of arrest. Obviously there had to be oversight. Trying to compare the le professional to an construction worker is rediculouse.

 

[Peacemaker]

Weather you guys believe it or not. . I am a big fan of law enforcement .. sorry if i offended anyone

 

[madwabbit]

Weather you guys believe it or not. . I am a big fan of law enforcement .. sorry if i offended anyone

Your remarks were unnecessarily hostile, especially given the manner of approach in this particular thread. When an officer responds to a call, he/she often sees someone on the worst day of their life. They do the job of dealing with things that most people can't deal with, and society genuinely doesn't want to see how its done. They just want it done so they can go about their day. Then people come along and have the audacity to tell an entire profession how to do the job, without ever having to consider the things an officer considers multiple times a day. With this in mind, its hard not to take offense at your comments. They were worded as an assault, and not as a genuine request. I've done my best to cordially respond to you, but I'm a little softer than the guys that take the abuse more often than I do.

Deferring to my last post- I'd be glad to continue my discussion with you (or anyone else that asks), but not if you are going to continue to throw verbal assaults at the officers in a thread where I'm trying my best to resolve the underlying tension.

 

[Saintsfan6]

Can we at least agree that you can have a positive outlook and respect for LE, and still state your opinion on particular situation's where you believe one or several LEO screwed up without being labeled a "cop hater" or "LEO basher"? I can have a negative opinion on someone in one profession and at the same time not have the same negative opinion on all in said profession.

FWIW I would vote for higher taxes if I knew it would genuinely help officers do their job more safely (more funding for education/training/gear/salary), but I don't want to pay for armored vehicles and their maintenance that will sit around for years and never actually see use.

 

[Armed Mage]

I think some non LEOs are way too quick to step in and say ______ was done wrong, when they don't understand what is actually happening. I also think some LEOs are way too quick to say that non LEOs don't understand what is happening when they chime in on these kinds of things. You don't need to be a cop to say that if you were on the recently posted stop for the "stolen car" and you believed the people in the car, you think you would've gone back and ran the plate number or vin number again, to confirm it was the right one. If someone tells me something and I believe them(as the officers apparently did), I would make sure my t's are crossed, both for my sake and theirs. This has nothing to do with LE work, this has to do with how I treat things in life.

The concept that it is a problem on here when someone says an officer screwed up is simply wrong. If you don't think anyone could possibly understand anything someone in your profession does wrong without having done it, you are crazy. This applies to all professions. Some things are pretty black and white. I don't need anyone on here to tell me an officer filing a false police report is wrong, just like I don't need anyone on here to tell me that the direct TV guy did something wrong if his foot comes through my ceiling.

The other side of this is that there are a lot of guys who chime in on gray area stuff that they don't understand. This is especially true for threads involving short grainy clips of video shot from on perspective and news articles lacking substance. They are quick to input their bias in lieu of facts and run where they want. They are also hesitant to comment on the positive things they saw. The lady with the crutches made a really dumb move by quickly ducking into the car and coming back out with something long and metal, but I didn't see anyone commenting on the officers response.

Shut up Jack, we can't allow voices of reason in a thread like this.

I'm not a LEO so I don't pretend to understand all the nuances of the job. At the same time though, the public has every right to question the actions of police, especially since the police are public servants.

 

[madwabbit]

Can we at least agree that you can have a positive outlook and respect for LE, and still state your opinion on particular situation's where you believe one or several LEO screwed up without being labeled a "cop hater" or "LEO basher"? I can have a negative opinion on someone in one profession and at the same time not have the same negative opinion on all in said profession.

FWIW I would vote for higher taxes if I knew it would genuinely help officers do their job more safely (more funding for education/training/gear/salary), but I don't want to pay for armored vehicles and their maintenance that will sit around for years and never actually see use.

AM sums it up as nicely as I've seen yet.

I'm not a LEO so I don't pretend to understand all the nuances of the job. At the same time though, the public has every right to question the actions of police, especially since the police are public servants.

When you (figuratively) post a video/story and default to: "Why'd that guy do that! Its abuse!", it's an entirely different context when you say "wow, that looks bad. why'd it go down like that?"

If you change the way you look at things, even temporarily, things change the way they look permanently. You new guys may not know this, but I used to be the flagship captain of the bayoushooter leo abuse brigade. It took some education and an open mind, but I genuinely see things differently now. It began with stopping the accusations and beginning to ask questions with an open mind. Often it turned into an enlightening conversation which was a far cry from the old stupid internet spats. I'm infinitely wiser to the world around me, and I don't just mean things leo.

The reason you don't see these questions answered is because in the current state of temperament on the forum, anyone that asks that question is looking for ammunition for a tirade - not a genuine answer with an open mind. I'll personally answer any question I can, so long as its at a genuine request and not someone looking to launch a personal attack.

 

[thatguy]

One of the greatest qualifications of the job? Be willing to make a life and death decision in less than a second knowing damn well that it will be anylized for years by lawyers and courts, bashed in forums, may put you away in federal prison for longer than the piece of crap you offended, cost your wife and kids their home, and you your Seattle minimum wage salary.