why is this bullet profile not more popular?

[DesmoDucRob]

It seems like this in a 9mm (147 grain?) would feed reliably as well as provide a bit of a shoulder to help punch a clean hole in paper targets. I also don't see any reason why it would be problematic, such as casting difficulties etc. Anyone?

 

[CloudStrife]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiwadcutter

 

[DesmoDucRob]

I've seen plenty semiwadcutters in the larger calibers, .40, .45 etc, but not the round nose swc in 9mm. So my question is, does such an animal exist?

 

[CloudStrife]

I've seen plenty semiwadcutters in the larger calibers, .40, .45 etc, but not the round nose swc in 9mm. So my question is, does such an animal exist?

If you can cast it, then why wouldn't it?
I've read that ball ammo tends to stretch flesh, which then closes back up, so the permanent wound cavity is smaller than the bullet diameter. The shoulder of a SWC is actually supposed to tear a hole, which won't close. It sounds better than ball and cheaper than hollow points, so I don't know why we don't see them more.

 

[highstandard40]

With that sharp of a shoulder it is very likely that here would be feeding issues in some guns. Performance wise, it would be a great design for self defense and paper punching.

 

[sterno]

I'd bet there would be feeding problems.

 

[dzelenka]

Also, many SWCs are not that good at killing. You need to look at the meplat. The bigger the meplat, the more shock to the target. The cutting shoulder may not work in flesh very well because of the shock wave that the bullet creates (i.e. the tissue temporarily opens up wider than the edge so you don't get the cut). This is why the LBT flat nosed bullets have become so popular with hunters. They deliver tremendous shock to the target. A round nosed semi-wadcutter would provide you with the worst of all worlds.

Dan

 

[CloudStrife]

Also, many SWCs are not that good at killing. You need to look at the meplat. The bigger the meplat, the more shock to the target. The cutting shoulder may not work in flesh very well because of the shock wave that the bullet creates (i.e. the tissue temporarily opens up wider than the edge so you don't get the cut). This is why the LBT flat nosed bullets have become so popular with hunters. They deliver tremendous shock to the target. A round nosed semi-wadcutter would provide you with the worst of all worlds.

Dan

A shock wave in the tissue can't occur until the bullet makes contact.
I think the round nose would help with penetration over a flat nose. If both rounds stay in the target, then the energy deposited with be equal either way.
The hydrostatic shock of pistol rounds is negligible.

 

[dzelenka]

A shock wave in the tissue can't occur until the bullet makes contact.
I think the round nose would help with penetration over a flat nose. If both rounds stay in the target, then the energy deposited with be equal either way.
The hydrostatic shock of pistol rounds is negligible.

Shoot much game with cast bullets?

 

[CloudStrife]

Shoot much game with cast bullets?

No. But lead will perform differently than copper depending on the velocity.

 

[CloudStrife]

Is this the LBT you mentioned?
I think slightly curved sides with a chopped nose like these would feed more reliably while still having the edge of a shoulder.

 

[jimdana1942]

All I know is that Elmer Keith developed extremely effective bullets utilizing the SWC design. Can't be beat for hunting and defense, especially in the magnum calibers.

 

[dzelenka]

Is this the LBT you mentioned?
I think slightly curved sides with a chopped nose like these would feed more reliably while still having the edge of a shoulder.

That is one of them. From the picture, that looks like a WFN (wide flat nose) profile. The ones that I have the most experience with are the LFN (long flat nose) in .44 and .45 caliber. They penetrate deep with wounds that look like an X bullet. If you buy them from the right place (I used Beartooth Bullets), they are heat treated wheel weight alloy which will not shatter on bone. My favorite killer is the 340 gr LFN in a .454 at 1575 fps. I have never found one in game no matter what was hit or what angle. I did find a 300 WFN on a spine shot so penetration is less on those.

Even if penetration is equal, a round nosed bullet will slip through tissue without nearly the damage of a flat nose.

Oh, and the LFN profile bullets seem to be quite accurate.

Dan

 

[dzelenka]

Here is a good article http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm You will notice that the Kieth style SWC gets good marks because of the meplat size. Many copies and other designs of SWCs do not use the same large meplat and do not kill game as well.

 

[CloudStrife]

Even if penetration is equal, a round nosed bullet will slip through tissue without nearly the damage of a flat nose.

That's the flesh stretching that I mentioned. The flat nose will tear.

 

[toddrod]

I've seen plenty semiwadcutters in the larger calibers, .40, .45 etc, but not the round nose swc in 9mm. So my question is, does such an animal exist?

Lee makes a SWC mold for 38s that many people use for 9mm.

 

[CloudStrife]

HST?

Nevermind. Federal HST.

 

[DesmoDucRob]

Lee makes a SWC mold for 38s that many people use for 9mm.

Thanks Todd, I may check that out. I am ultimately trying to find a bullet that has the feeding reliability of a round nose, while providing cleanly cut holes in paper targets (read uspsa targets).

dzelenka, it appears that the keith style bullet may be my answer. This is not exactly a pressing issue at my reloading bench, but it has always puzzled me as to why no one makes a round nose bullet with just enough of a sharp shoulder to punch a clean hole. Those perfect circles that the semi wadcutter shooters get just tick me off. Thanks-

 

[Geardo]

The hydrostatic shock of pistol rounds is negligible.

You must not have a 357 mag with a 6" barrel, 125hp's out of mine look like rifle hit's on varmit's, actually it does more tissue damage than a .308 with fmj's

 

[CloudStrife]

You must not have a 357 mag with a 6" barrel, 125hp's out of mine look like rifle hit's on varmit's, actually it does more tissue damage than a .308 with fmj's

The hydrostatic shock is the fluid shock wave that goes though the organs and such. For most pistol rounds (I can't quote the article, so I can't say which ones exactly), the organs are elastic enough to withstand the shock wave. A .357 hp is a bigger bullet (diameter wise) and it expands, so it should do more tissue damage.
Of course I don't suppose there is much difference when pistol rounds start to reach rifle velocities.

Note: The hydrostatic shock isn't really relevant here anyway. I mentioned it in reply to a post that said "shock wave", but he was referring to the temporary cavity behind the bullet, I think.