Why NOT?

[FishingBack]

Written by John Payne well before this healthcare debacle.

To honor the United States’ secessions (yes, that is meant to be plural; up until 1865, it was the “United States are” not the “United States is”) from the British Empire, the good folks at A Thousand Nations have been blogging on the topic of secession all week. You can find an index of posts here, and I highly recommend them, especially for those of you who have never given much thought to breaking up the United States into more manageable units.

Although those contributions to the debate are ample, allow me to offer my own take on why secession is still a good idea.

1) The most basic reason for supporting secession is that it makes government more accountable to the people it governs. The smaller a polity is, the easier it is for an individual’s objections to be heard whether that be through voting, petition, protest, etc. It also becomes harder for one group to oppress another the more they have to interact with each other. Dehumanizing some distant group is very easy; it is much harder to do with your next door neighbor. In the words of my all time favorite libertarian hero Karl Hess, “Adolf Hitler as chancellor of Germany is a horror; Adolf Hitler at a town meeting would be an *******.”

But even if some Hitlerian figure were to take over an independent state or town, it is far easier to flee a small polity than a larger one. Getting out of the old Soviet Union was extremely difficult; getting out of Missouri, not so much.

2) The harmful effects of bad policies are seen and felt far more quickly the smaller the polity. A huge nation like the United States or China can easily persist in wealth (or even life) destroying policies for generations because their benefits are concentrated at special interest groups that agitate to continue the policies while the costs are dispersed onto the rest of the population. This is why our government subsidizes corn so heavily. But it would be nearly impossible for Iowa to continue those policies if it seceded. There would be fewer people to tax and more people expecting benefits, leading taxpayers to demand subsidy reductions and corn farmers to care less about keeping them as each individual farmer’s share of the loot would drop.

3) The United States long ago ceased to be anything resembling the republic the Founders envisioned. When the Constitution was ratified there 30,000 people for every representative in Congress, and for many of the Founders, like George Mason who spearheaded the drive for a bill of rights, this number still seemed high. But now with over 300 million people in the country, and the number of representatives capped at 435 there are almost 700,000 people for every representative in Congress–a number that will continue to grow. It may be absurd to believe that one person can represent 30,000, but that just makes it all the more absurd to believe one can represent 23 times that much. It is the equivalent of six people representing the entirety of the American population at the time of the Constitution’s ratification.

We can only restore the level of representation circa 1790 in two ways: expanding the number of representatives from 435 to just over 10,000 or by dividing the country up into smaller polities. The first option raises the obvious question of how an organization of 10,000 could function and where they could meet, but it would also make each representative’s power negligible in exact proportion to how much it would strengthen each citizen’s power to influence her representative, making the whole point moot. The only possibility for each American to live in a representative republic (that’s not my ideal, but I prefer it to the monstrosity we live in now) is secession.

4) Many of our states are as large as most other countries. There are more people in California than Canada; more in New York than Taiwan, Australia, or North Korea; more in Florida than the Netherlands; almost as many in Missouri as Ireland; and more in Texas than Austria, Switzerland, and Isreal combined. Furthermore, our state economies are even larger than our populations relative to the rest of the world. Check out this map to see what country the GDP of each state matches up with; it’s pretty mind boggling. New Jersey is on par with Russia; Nebraska with the Czech Republic; North Carolina with that supposed paragon of social democracy Sweden. The most common objection I hear to secession is that the states are too small to survive on their own, but that position has no basis in reality.

So given all this, why not secede? What exactly do we have to lose but trillions of dollars in debt, an overly aggressive foreign policy that does nothing to keep us safe, and federal taxes that are sure to only go higher? So citizens of America….uh, disunite?

Thoughts?

 

[FishingBack]

read the details in the numbered paragraphs

 

[Kraut]

I think the idea just goes beyond the scope of most people's imaginations: to think that they may not be able to just drive ten minutes from Slidell to cross a state line and head for a beach, or go to Disney World without a passport, or apply for a work visa to take a job on their cousin's ranch in Montana during the summer. Americans feel an inherent right of ownership of the entirety of the country, they're proud of the Statue of Liberty, they travel to see Mt. Rushmore, they attend the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and the same flag flies over all, the same rights are (supposedly) guaranteed to them at any and all of those places. Personally, I've still got a lot of America to see, and I don't intend to give up on that. I bet the Founding Fathers bored the hell out of their families, friends, and neighbors yammering on about freedom and independence, but they spread the message enough, and backed it up when it counted. We hear each other on here, but how many of us have made ourselves successfully heard elsewhere by others? Maybe not enough of us. We may have to get louder.

 

[LACamper]

Thoughts:
We would be a collection of 50 third-world nations. LA would be OK based on oil, gas, and farming. AZ would be pretty much screwed. Actually, we'd be worse than 3rd world because of the lack of an organized economy. No state is set up to operate independently. Also, we import a lot of things from foreign countries (china especially) that we would be struggling without. LA doesn't have trade agreements w/ China. We don't have the connections to start those agreements etiher. Each state is too specialized. Also, do you really want to watch other states collapse economically? We're all still Americans.
Next, we owe China a lot of money. Divided, we have no national defense. China is going to collect. If we secede what would stop Obama from telling China they could have LA as payment of 6 billion of debt. Mexico would reclaim AZ and TX (well, they'd reclaim AZ and try to take TX. It'd be bloody though!).
We'd be better off passing some amendments reasserting the state's rights. In 2012 we'll have a more conservative president and house. Two years after that (IIRC) we can redo the senate. Then we can push for a new amendment to help prevent another Obama-ish takeover by either side. I'm not sure how yet... splitting California into two states comes to mind. Mandatory ID for voting would help. Requiring anyone not born of US citizens to pass the naturalization test (in English) before becoming a citizen? Evicting all of our illegals? I'm open to suggestions. On second thought don't worry too much about California, with all the quakes lately its only a matter of time before Las Vegas has a beach!
BTW, I'd add in a clause removing any reference or question as to race in any government publication.

 

[wbill024]

The best solution is through the ballot box , get conservative (tea Party) Republicans in office and elect a president that will install strict constitutional judges to the courts. We can then restore our state rights (2A included) .... we need strict educational standards in regards to our history and the constitution itself... the hell with Incan, Mexican or even African history...they just don't matter ...why do you think the liberals went into education folks. If all this fails, I would rather be a free man via secession in a possible 3rd world state and work hard for my children ...so that we would eventually build it into a great country... then be a slave to a liberal's idea of the 'people's democracy' and social justice...JMO

 

[CloudStrife]

If there were a secession, divvying up military resources won't be pretty. There will pretty much have to be a war unless whole branches pick sides.

 

[BigH]

Increasing states' rights fixes most of the domestic political problems we have now. Let the hippies in CA do whatever they want. They already do. No need to seccede.

 

[CloudStrife]

Avoiding micromanagement was part of the idea behind the Constitution, I think. Every responsibility should be given to the smallest possible level of gov't. That's how every successful organization works.

 

[FishingBack]

Increasing states' rights fixes most of the domestic political problems we have now. Let the hippies in CA do whatever they want. They already do. No need to seccede.

That's the rub. The federal gov will not allow that.

 

[LACamper]

If the union does break apart we'll all be run by North Dakota! They've got the ICBM's!!!

 

[Jimmy Dean]

If the union does break apart we'll all be run by North Dakota! They've got the ICBM's!!!

Last time I checked...we have enough nukes here in Louisiana to level the world twice over...

 

[CloudStrife]

We also have a ton of chemical plants, so screw ND.

 

[Suburbazine]

Last time I checked...we have enough nukes here in Louisiana to level the world twice over...

*pats warhead*

 

[Doug.38PR]

I'd rather Louisiana be a 3rd World Country and free than part of an empire that robs you of your liberty.

Stay humble and small, not big and arrogant

 

[LouisianaRebel]

If the union does break apart we'll all be run by North Dakota! They've got the ICBM's!!!

We have bombers.

 

[afwxman]

North Dakota Fun Facts

1. The town of Rugby is the geographical center of North America. A tall stone obelisk marks the location.

2. North Dakota was the first state to complete its Interstate highway system.

3. The parking meter was invented by North Dakota.

4. Dakota Gasification Company in Beulah is the nation's only synthetic natural gas producer.

5. North Dakota has 60 wildlife refuges, more than any other state, and all are managed for waterfowl production.

6. North Dakota has more miles of road per capita than any other state - approximately 166 miles of road for every 1,000 people.

7. If North Dakota seceded from the Union, it would be the world's third strongest nuclear power.

8. North Dakota has the highest number of millionaires per capita than any other state, and not a yuppie to be found anywhere.

9. Did you know that North Dakota leads the nation in the production of just about everything? The state is first in spring wheat, durum wheat, sunflowers, barley, a dry edible beans, pinto beans, canola, flaxseed, all dry edible peas, honey, lentils and oats.

10. Did you know that the highest temperature ever recorded in North Dakota was 121 degrees in Steele, ND in July of 1936?

11. Or that the lowest temperature was -60 degrees at Parshall, ND during the last ice age (kidding, but not about the temperature) in February 1936?

12. The fastest growing city in the state is West Fargo, which has soared from 14,910 residents in 2000 to more than 21,000 in 2007.

13. What is the sturnella neglecta? It's the scientific name of the state's bird. Can you name it? It's the Western Meadowlark, a songbird often found on fence posts chirping away.

14. Fore! Did you know that North Dakota has more golf courses per capita than any other state?

15. North Dakota Ranks #1 in the safest state to live in. (Morgan Quitno 03/05)

16. North Dakota is 1 of only 8 states with a growing economy. (Economy.com)

17. North Dakota Ranks 6th highest in state economic competitiveness. (Beacon Hill Institute, 12/05)

18. North Dakota had the second highest per capita income growth from 2000-2005. (Bureau of Economic Analysis, 2005)

19. North Dakota has more coastline than California due to Lake Sakakawea! (50states.com)

20. Fargo-Moorehead ranked as one of America's top Business Opportunity Metros' for 2005. (Expansion Management)

21. North Dakota Ranks #1 for rate of high school completion (01/06 Corporation for Enterprise Development)

22. Is one of only two states to increase manufacturing jobs from 2000-2004. (U.S. Dept. of Labor)


You might want to rethink the whole "screw ND" bit

 

[CloudStrife]

If they'd rather side with liberals, then screw them.