zinc plated ammo
- Thread starter gizmorn
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IMHO, stay w/the brass...
Golden-Eagle
Well-Known Member
I have not used that ammo. Just stay away from any ammo that has a coating. It will melt inside of the barrel creating a mess.
Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
Double brmp.
I am 100% against using steel cased ammo in my pistols and non-peasant (read: non-AK pattern) rifles. But I picked up a beater AR15 for the express purpose of making some use out of a ton of spare parts, and having a stray rifle that I honestly didn't care much about-- loan it to friends, tinker, abuse, etc. From the jump, it was intended to eat the cheaper steel cased stuff.
I ran sickly lacquered and the new poly-coated "matte grey" steel case of several brands in the beginning; the biggest issue I had was with a lot of soft Wolf, that jammed up my rifle (and another more reputable one before it) as the gunk built up in the chamber and the rims began to shear. At the same time, I knew that over the course of hard use, that stuff was going to cause problems. I opted for the Zinc-coated Silver Bear because for a few more bucks per 1k, I could avoid the major headache of baking extra gunk into the gun.
It was a wise decision. That stuff will flat out run, aside from the usual QC issues that you'll get with Russian-lot ammo-- sideways primers being number one, it would seem. To top it off, IMO and moderate experience, the Barnaul stuff is the best of the bunch when it comes to imports. I fed roughly 1400 rounds through the questionable rifle across 3 months, without cleaning and only standard re-lubing, and never had a single feeding or extraction issue; try that with straight lacquer or poly coating. When I did get around to cleaning, it was seventy jillion times easier without a bunch of caked on and baked in gunk to overcome. The stuff is dirty anyway you slice it, but it was a far cry from the kindergartner's gluey nightmare of the alternatives.
In fact, I liked it so much that I went with Silver Bear for all of my AK needs as well. I have no trouble dropping an extra 10% of the cost for the peace of mind, even if it may not be necessary in 7.62 x 39.
All of that said, I still go with brass in any non-Russian weapon that I really care about. But having been a SERIOUS steel cased hater, it's pretty telling that I don't have qualms with the Silver Bear in .223; if you're going for steel cased at all, it'd be my choice. The cost savings are quite real if you're shooting in serious volume, and as I said-- my beater has run well on it in some pretty adverse conditions. Pick up a few hundred and give it a shot; in the end, that's the only way you'll know for sure what your rifle will think.
I am 100% against using steel cased ammo in my pistols and non-peasant (read: non-AK pattern) rifles. But I picked up a beater AR15 for the express purpose of making some use out of a ton of spare parts, and having a stray rifle that I honestly didn't care much about-- loan it to friends, tinker, abuse, etc. From the jump, it was intended to eat the cheaper steel cased stuff.
I ran sickly lacquered and the new poly-coated "matte grey" steel case of several brands in the beginning; the biggest issue I had was with a lot of soft Wolf, that jammed up my rifle (and another more reputable one before it) as the gunk built up in the chamber and the rims began to shear. At the same time, I knew that over the course of hard use, that stuff was going to cause problems. I opted for the Zinc-coated Silver Bear because for a few more bucks per 1k, I could avoid the major headache of baking extra gunk into the gun.
It was a wise decision. That stuff will flat out run, aside from the usual QC issues that you'll get with Russian-lot ammo-- sideways primers being number one, it would seem. To top it off, IMO and moderate experience, the Barnaul stuff is the best of the bunch when it comes to imports. I fed roughly 1400 rounds through the questionable rifle across 3 months, without cleaning and only standard re-lubing, and never had a single feeding or extraction issue; try that with straight lacquer or poly coating. When I did get around to cleaning, it was seventy jillion times easier without a bunch of caked on and baked in gunk to overcome. The stuff is dirty anyway you slice it, but it was a far cry from the kindergartner's gluey nightmare of the alternatives.
In fact, I liked it so much that I went with Silver Bear for all of my AK needs as well. I have no trouble dropping an extra 10% of the cost for the peace of mind, even if it may not be necessary in 7.62 x 39.
All of that said, I still go with brass in any non-Russian weapon that I really care about. But having been a SERIOUS steel cased hater, it's pretty telling that I don't have qualms with the Silver Bear in .223; if you're going for steel cased at all, it'd be my choice. The cost savings are quite real if you're shooting in serious volume, and as I said-- my beater has run well on it in some pretty adverse conditions. Pick up a few hundred and give it a shot; in the end, that's the only way you'll know for sure what your rifle will think.
)ive fired quite a bit of it thru my ar. while its not all that accurate, its pretty reliable.
also theres no way you are going to get your chamber hot enough to melt the zink off the cases (750 degrees f) without melting your handgaurds first.
also theres no way you are going to get your chamber hot enough to melt the zink off the cases (750 degrees f) without melting your handgaurds first.
That is a valid point.
Being that brass transfers heat much faster than steel, could running steel ammo "hard" cause some overheating issues in the gun?
If a gun can't shoot steel case reliably, it's not a gun I care to have.
I run nothing but steel in my M&Ps for practice/training, and the same goes for my ARs and when I own AKs. I will run lacquer coated Brown Bear normally, but for higher round count classes, I'll jump up to Silver Bear for carbine classes, to keep lacquer build-up from being an issue. I've done that dance once, and luckily I had the solvents to clean it out and get back on the line, but from hear on out I'll just avoid the issue.
There's nothing but propaganda and rumor-milling to support there being anything wrong with steel cased. Hell, Hornady makes their MATCH grade 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 based on galv-steel cased ammo. I would much prefer brass in guns like that, especially stainless barrels, but it ain't the end of the world.
If you have a steel barrel with chrome lined bore - you have no concern.
If you have a stainless barrel, you -may- see accelerated wear in the chamber but that's going to be so minute, and only of concern to the most stringent of precision, long range shooter who actually shoot-out their barrels. It's a NON-issue to the average shooter.
Save yourself some money, get some cheap ammo and enjoy it just as much as the expensive stuff - more so, since you spend less per round.
I run nothing but steel in my M&Ps for practice/training, and the same goes for my ARs and when I own AKs. I will run lacquer coated Brown Bear normally, but for higher round count classes, I'll jump up to Silver Bear for carbine classes, to keep lacquer build-up from being an issue. I've done that dance once, and luckily I had the solvents to clean it out and get back on the line, but from hear on out I'll just avoid the issue.
There's nothing but propaganda and rumor-milling to support there being anything wrong with steel cased. Hell, Hornady makes their MATCH grade 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 based on galv-steel cased ammo. I would much prefer brass in guns like that, especially stainless barrels, but it ain't the end of the world.
If you have a steel barrel with chrome lined bore - you have no concern.
If you have a stainless barrel, you -may- see accelerated wear in the chamber but that's going to be so minute, and only of concern to the most stringent of precision, long range shooter who actually shoot-out their barrels. It's a NON-issue to the average shooter.
Save yourself some money, get some cheap ammo and enjoy it just as much as the expensive stuff - more so, since you spend less per round.
I use Silver Bear in all of my Eastern Bloc stuff...P-64, CZ-82, P-83, Makarov and even my AK platforms. It's good ammo and much cheaper than other stuff, especially in bulk for plinking. None of those guns seem concerned that it is not brass cased. They shoot it just fine. That is what matters to me.
If you shot brass ammo you could easily make up your difference in ammo costs by selling the once fired brass.
I think that has to do with them having to buy the brass from wolf who only makes this ammo in steel cased varieties.
It doesn't bother me so much in commie guns, but my other guns won't see any of it.
Absolutely, but they still see fit to say it's good for 'match grade' which tells me... well.... something. There -is- brass x39 out there. I'm unaware of any 5.45, but there is a-plenty of brass x39. That kinda makes me curious, now.
Anyways, I'm curious - why do your 'non-commie' guns not get steel cased? Why would Euro or Amur'kan guns need brass? Does it just make you feel better about your 'murican guns, that you 'treat them better' in your eyes, or what?
Sloppy loose tolerances mainly, and that is not a bad thing necessarily.
And yes for some guns it makes me feel better (m&p), some it is counter productive and would rather not risk and wear that may result(223 bolt guns and the like), and lastly it isn't available in many calibers I have.
That coupled with the fact I try to avoid low quality ammo makes steel ammo kind of irrelevant.
Oh and to answer this question before it arrives, I do not think all steel cased ammo is low quality per say. I'm sure the Hornaday ammo is very consistent on charges and bullet weights. I also trust a lot of the surplus stuff although it is well know it is not consistent, but it stays within close enough tolerances. For whatever reason the commercial imported stuff from ex-Soviet countries just doesn't sit right with me. My fear could be totally unsubstantiated but I find that to be a non issue as I do not see the value of shooting steel when decent quality brass is available for not much more. Especially in pistol calibers.
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Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
That, almost exclusively.
It's not so much the steel case that keeps me away, it's the rotten QC that most of that ammo gets as well. The only truly huge commercial ammo failures I've ever seen were ALL in steel cased stuff, and most of the PITA things as well.
I also don't care what anyone says-- the different expansion rate and stiffer material has got to make a difference in the function, and put wear on the parts necessary for extraction at an accelerated rate. It may be minor, and of no consequence to the vast majority of shooters-- but you'll never convince me without a lot of technical data and studies that it doesn't happen that way.
Besides-- reloading brass is still cheaper.
Ah something else I forgot to mention.
In my limited experiences shooting cheaper steel case ammo (commercial stuff) I have found it to be VERY dirty and leave a good bit of soot. I imagine this could lead to malfunctions if shot enough, but I just don't like because of the mess.
Also brass is worth something after being shot, it can either be reloaded or sold.
In my limited experiences shooting cheaper steel case ammo (commercial stuff) I have found it to be VERY dirty and leave a good bit of soot. I imagine this could lead to malfunctions if shot enough, but I just don't like because of the mess.
Also brass is worth something after being shot, it can either be reloaded or sold.
Oh, man, I wasn't even going to argue/question that it's crappier ammo. It's dirtier, and I assume that because it's typically a little looser in accuracy, it's because it has a wider tolerance in loading. I'll never argue that about wolf/tula/brownbear/silverbear, etc. It's all about being up front cheap.
I don't want to spend time picking up, boxing up, transporting, selling, delivering the once-fired. That's why I typically forget about that advantage. I forget that some people do.
I don't want to spend time picking up, boxing up, transporting, selling, delivering the once-fired. That's why I typically forget about that advantage. I forget that some people do.
in my experience nothing is as dirty as remington yellow/green box ammo. ive shot black powder that left less residue/carbon/soot than it left.
I'm having trouble recalling that ammo. Is it centerfire? Is it the same as the UMC ammo that comes in the 250 round packs?
Usually if I'm looking for cheap centerfire I pick up federal 100 round boxes. They can be had at wally world for right under $20.
I wish I had a dollar for everyone round of steel cased 9mm & .45 I've run though my Glocks over the years....
Hell- a dime, even.
Nobody seems to like it, but I've never had issues with it when it comes to burner ammo.
....And besides- if the day should ever come when we must all face that dreaded Zombie Apocalypse, I'd wager that most of us would be a helluva lot less choosey.
Hell- a dime, even.
Nobody seems to like it, but I've never had issues with it when it comes to burner ammo.
....And besides- if the day should ever come when we must all face that dreaded Zombie Apocalypse, I'd wager that most of us would be a helluva lot less choosey.
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