No Gun sign question

[drpc]

I was told something today that I'd like verified. First let me say I have a Carry permit from another state that LA recognizes but I have not taken the LA cource ( I plan to attend one soon).

Someone told me that if a store in Louisiana has a No Gun sign and you enter that store with a concealed handgun you could be charged with a felony just for being in that store with a handgun. I was under the impression that it would only be illegal if you were asked to leave and refused. I'd respect the wishes of the business owner and leave the gun in the car (or shop elsewhere) but I can see there might be an instance where the sign might be overlooked.

Can anyone tell me if what I was told is true.

 

[Guate_shooter]

YES it is correct, please add a location to your profile and introduce yourself, welcome to the forum by the way.

In Louisiana we have to respect the wish of the business owner if they choose for us to not be welcomed, they are required to have a sign at the front door.

 

[spanky]

I'm fairly certain what you were told is incorrect.

eta: Got a cite, Pablo?

 

[Guate_shooter]

I'm fairly certain what you were told is incorrect.

eta: Got a cite, Pablo?

NOT rite now about to go nite nite, gotta be up at 4 am, but I will hook a brotha up sharp tomorrow like the roosters!

 

[Guate_shooter]

Here ya go!

O. The provisions of Subsection N of this Section shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.

 

[Guate_shooter]

You can download the rule book here!

http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#forms

 

[spanky]

Does that make it a felony?

 

[Tulse Luper]

I'm fairly certain what you were told is incorrect.

Yep, I don't believe this would be a felony charge. But I am not certain. I'd like to see what the charge would be, though.

 

[drpc]

Felony?

If someone is not doing anything other than being in the store with a concealed handgun, he can be charged with a felony?

 

[spanky]

I'd venture to guess it would be a misdemeanor, just like illegal carrying is.

 

[Guate_shooter]

I'd venture to guess it would be a misdemeanor, just like illegal carrying is.

+1 but then again, I'm not the one writing the citation !

 

[Tulse Luper]

If someone is not doing anything other than being in the store with a concealed handgun, he can be charged with a felony?

I wonder if anyone has ever been arrested for this in LA.

 

[JadeRaven]

..

 

[Guate_shooter]

L. Anyone who carries and conceals a handgun in violation of any provision of this Section, unless authorized to do so by another provision of the law, shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

LRS 40:1382
§1382. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun
A. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun is the intentional or criminally negligent carrying by any person, whether or not authorized or licensed to carry or possess a concealed handgun, under the following circumstances:
(1) When it is foreseeable that the handgun may discharge, or when others are placed in reasonable apprehension that the handgun may discharge.
(2) When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.
B. It shall be within the discretion of the law enforcement officer to issue a summons to a person accused of committing this offense in lieu of making a physical arrest. The seizure of the handgun pending resolution of the offense shall only be discretionary in the instance where the law enforcement officer issues a summons to the person accused. If the law enforcement officer makes a physical arrest of the person accused, the handgun and the person's license to carry such handgun shall be seized.
C. Whoever commits the offense of negligent carrying of a concealed handgun shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned without hard labor for not more than six months, or both. The adjudicating judge may also order the forfeiture of the handgun and may suspend or revoke any permit or license authorizing the carrying of the handgun

 

[JBP55]

Does that make it a felony?

No.

 

[JadeRaven]

..

 

[spanky]

L. Anyone who carries and conceals a handgun in violation of any provision of this Section, unless authorized to do so by another provision of the law, shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

LRS 40:1382
§1382. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun
A. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun is the intentional or criminally negligent carrying by any person, whether or not authorized or licensed to carry or possess a concealed handgun, under the following circumstances:
(1) When it is foreseeable that the handgun may discharge, or when others are placed in reasonable apprehension that the handgun may discharge.
(2) When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.
B. It shall be within the discretion of the law enforcement officer to issue a summons to a person accused of committing this offense in lieu of making a physical arrest. The seizure of the handgun pending resolution of the offense shall only be discretionary in the instance where the law enforcement officer issues a summons to the person accused. If the law enforcement officer makes a physical arrest of the person accused, the handgun and the person's license to carry such handgun shall be seized.
C. Whoever commits the offense of negligent carrying of a concealed handgun shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned without hard labor for not more than six months, or both. The adjudicating judge may also order the forfeiture of the handgun and may suspend or revoke any permit or license authorizing the carrying of the handgun

I don't think that is relevant.

 

[bs875]

I think these citations pertain to different situations. I PM'd nolacopusmc and asked him to comment.

 

[kcinnick]

I think the charge may be "remaining after forbidden", if anything at all.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Not gonna be a felony. Misdemeanor. When you read a law, if the penalty is 1 year imprisonment or hard labor, it is a felony by LA standards.

This is another one that has been debated with no real answer until someone gets busted.

There is no "Not obeying a no gun sign" law or statute.

However, ONE OF MANY WAYS it could play out is, and try to follow the logic without thinking wether it is "dat's wrong". Try to look at it from a very logical legal viewpoint (oxymoron, I know). This is what has been discussed in closed sessions with and without me by stronger and more experienced legal minds than mine.

1. It is illegal to carry a handgun concealed without a permit.

2. If you break any of the rules inside of 40:1379.3-Statewide permits for concealed handguns; application procedures; definitions your permit becomes instantly invalid as defined by the statute and the signed affidavit (your application) and rules contained within. You Basically agree to follow the rules. When you break them, you are not covered by the legal protection of the permit.

3. If your permit becomes instantly invalid, you are now illegally carrying a concealed handgun as defined by 14:95 Illegal Carrying of Weapons

4. Per 40:1379.3-Statewide permits for concealed handguns; application procedures; definitions a private property owner can restrict access for any reason, even to not have guns on premise.

5. There is some exception pertaining to issues like "presumption of access" and other legal concepts that affect a private place that is open to the public, but as a general rule, if you do not own the property, you do not make the rules and must follow the rules of the person who does own.

6.Not counting the exceptions above, you in the strictest (yet completely impractical) sense of the law, must GET permission, not assume it.

"Always remember, in our society, the default answer is NO GUNS. Always approach the issue from the viewpoint of NO GUNS and you will be safe" Paraphrased from a statement a gentlemen made at the CHP meeting...who BTW was a lawyer of some type and a pretty knowledgeable guys as far as legislative issues and jurisprudence were concerned. He was the guy everyone deferred to when these topics came up. Many of you know who I am referring to.

7. So, when you operate by the very clever but equally as ignorant notion of "Concealed Means Concealed" you are infact nullifying your permit and breaking the law on two seperate accounts by doing that which is prohibited by the CHP STATUTE 40:1379.3

EXAMPLE SCENARIO-

You live by Concealed Means Concealed, so you walk into a place that has a Class A general Retail Permit. Upon doing so, your CHP becomes invalid. You are now in violation, at minimum, of:
40:1379.3-Statewide permits for concealed handguns; application procedures; definitions
and
14:95 Illegal Carrying of Weapons

However, if the establishment is also a Alcoholic Beverage Outlet as defined in 14:95.5. Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet, you could also be charged with that.

This is again ONE OF MANY ways this specific set of circumstances COULD turn out.

The same thing goes for a place with a NO GUNS sign. It COULD be determined by ignoring it, you invalidated your permit, thus illegally carrying concealed, thus broke the law.

Sooooooo, as the prevailing advice from LSP, knowledgeable instructors, LEO, and attorneys states....use common sense and you should be OK.

Is that an iron clad guarantee? Of course not, but as in life, if you use your head and do not go around saying"Fick that sign", you should be OK.