Albuquerque, NM camper shooting...

[JWG223]

I'm curious what the video isn't showing. Is this as bad as it looks? What do LE have to say about it?

 

[themcfarland]

I watched it, and studied the circumstances..

Here are the facts, The neighbors living in the area called to complain, since it was not a legal spot..
Given the call, the cops had to show up.
Given the fact the guy was ranting about killing them, and would not comply, they escalated the force.. he pulls two knives... he gets shot
They bean bag him to see if he is responsive to pain after he is down, since the knife was in his hand still..

things I learned after some google work.. The guy was considered a mental patient, known to be violent and had cut at least one person a few years prior. (unknown if the responding Leo knew this)


I cant see where any wrong was done.. I went into it, expecting the cops to be winded and shaky from the climb, and sympathetically pulled the trigger due to the cardio/and adrenalin. I did not see that in this vid.. the voices were calm, they called in a negotiator I think or someone trained anyway..

My two cents..

Dave

 

[JWG223]

That's what I read and decided. Obviously the video is being proposed by many to be proof of LE wrongdoing, but they present it as if that 3 minutes was the whole ordeal.

 

[themcfarland]

I was not there but I think if they cop(s) did wrong, they would have been charged just like anyone else.
Like I said, I went in expecting to see a shaking hand, and did not see that.. I went in expecting some kind of wrong doing from a shooter.. I did not see that..

The reason I say I was looking for it, I have seen the short version of the video and it along with posts on FB groups made me think it was more of an escalation and all heated.. they guys looked professional and squared away.. Now keep in mind my short experiences and mostly from the outside looking in..

 

[JWG223]

The muzzle awareness of the cam guy bothered me.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

These videos are fairly worthless from
A probative stand point. We see the climax but not what lead to it. Bottom line if you introduce a weapon into a confrontation with Police you stand an exponentially greater chance of being shot. Whether your right or wrong your still shot.

 

[JR1572]

These videos are fairly worthless from
A probative stand point. We see the climax but not what lead to it. Bottom line if you introduce a weapon into a confrontation with Police you stand an exponentially greater chance of being shot. Whether your right or wrong your still shot.

This.

JR1572

 

[Pas Tout La]

These videos are fairly worthless from
A probative stand point. We see the climax but not what lead to it. Bottom line if you introduce a weapon into a confrontation with Police you stand an exponentially greater chance of being shot. Whether your right or wrong your still shot.

Good words to live by right there.

 

[Hitman]

Bottom line if you introduce a weapon into a confrontation with Police you stand an exponentially greater chance of being shot. Whether your right or wrong your still shot.

I'll add, if I may ...

If you do (ANYTHING),
but COMPLY,
with Law Enforcement Officers
giving you clear and concise commands....
...you stand an exponentially greater chance of ...etc..etc...


Most folks like this are begging for trouble.
Hell a flash Bang went off at his feet,
yet still he refused to COMPLY with orders,
and instead escalated the situation by NOT keeping his hands up,
and drawing a lethal weapon.

Justified Shoot...in my humble opinion.

...and like Nate mentioned towards. If you're being wronged, it's better to survive and have your day in court,
than to go full retard and end up shot or dead, with NO day in court.

 

[radney]

I'm saying it is unjustified. Deadly force was certainly not necessary here - I've dealt with situations like this overseas. Deadly force should only be applied if there is a threat to officer safety, which of course there was not. They could have easily tased or bean bagged this guy from a safe distance. I find it disturbing now that we've become so accustomed to it that wielding a knife justifies being shot from a distance. If this is permissible for law enforcement then essentially anything can now be justified as non-compliant and threatening (I'm referring to action not verbal).

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Hmmmmmm, so the Police should let themselves get stabbed? I'm not sure what the Police did that made him pull a knife? Seems like he pulled not one but two knives, of his own volition, for a reason. I doubt it was to further the discussion. At what point would the Police have been justified? Is there a "Not Safe" Distance?

 

[Jack]

I'm saying it is unjustified. Deadly force was certainly not necessary here - I've dealt with situations like this overseas. Deadly force should only be applied if there is a threat to officer safety, which of course there was not. They could have easily tased or bean bagged this guy from a safe distance. I find it disturbing now that we've become so accustomed to it that wielding a knife justifies being shot from a distance. If this is permissible for law enforcement then essentially anything can now be justified as non-compliant and threatening (I'm referring to action not verbal).

How many feet is safe distance? Given his response to the flash grenade, would you have confidence that shooting him(outside of a no response shot) if he started running towards an officer would stop him? If an 80 year old lady gets a knife pulled on her by someone at that distance after he screams "bitch I'll kill you" is that a good shoot?

 

[madwabbit]

job 1: go home to wife and baby

pull a knife and i'll (very probably) shoot you. just sayin

 

[MOTOR51]

I watched it, and studied the circumstances..

Here are the facts, The neighbors living in the area called to complain, since it was not a legal spot..
Given the call, the cops had to show up.
Given the fact the guy was ranting about killing them, and would not comply, they escalated the force.. he pulls two knives... he gets shot
They bean bag him to see if he is responsive to pain after he is down, since the knife was in his hand still..

things I learned after some google work.. The guy was considered a mental patient, known to be violent and had cut at least one person a few years prior. (unknown if the responding Leo knew this)


I cant see where any wrong was done.. I went into it, expecting the cops to be winded and shaky from the climb, and sympathetically pulled the trigger due to the cardio/and adrenalin. I did not see that in this vid.. the voices were calm, they called in a negotiator I think or someone trained anyway..

My two cents..

Dave

I'm saying it is unjustified. Deadly force was certainly not necessary here - I've dealt with situations like this overseas. Deadly force should only be applied if there is a threat to officer safety, which of course there was not. They could have easily tased or bean bagged this guy from a safe distance. I find it disturbing now that we've become so accustomed to it that wielding a knife justifies being shot from a distance. If this is permissible for law enforcement then essentially anything can now be justified as non-compliant and threatening (I'm referring to action not verbal).

Never mind

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

 

[SpeedRacer]

Totally unjustified. They should have just talked to the guy and ended the incident peacefully like these cops...

 

[general mills]

Speedracer, that is the exact video that came to my mind. I don't see the problem. Police say get on the ground, instead, you grab 2 knives, you just asked to be shot. They did not approach him holding 2 knives and ask him to put them down, He turned a verbal confrontation into a armed confrontation, and the police met deadly force with deadly force.

 

[themcfarland]

I for one, not in uniform would shoot your ass if you were yelling and pulled two knives..

 

[freedive10]

Totally unjustified. They should have just talked to the guy and ended the incident peacefully like these cops...

This incident happened in Nicaragua and sad to say, plays out much the same in Central America!!!!!!! Officers are really not trained very well over there!

 

[radney]

Hmmmmmm, so the Police should let themselves get stabbed? I'm not sure what the Police did that made him pull a knife? Seems like he pulled not one but two knives, of his own volition, for a reason. I doubt it was to further the discussion. At what point would the Police have been justified? Is there a "Not Safe" Distance?

First of all, they could've maintained plenty of distance to tase or bean bag him without risking anything. If he lunges, that is different. He made no attempt to stab them - they gave him the opportunity by getting close. He could've been easily disarmed without deadly force from a safe distance.

And job number one is not to go home to wife and baby These are civilians dealing with other civilians - this isn't combat. This paramilitary mindset that is pervading police was humorous in the past but is getting out of control now.

 

[radney]

Now before everyone goes all thin blue line on this I'll make clear that I am all for officer safety. I don't think they should take unnecessary risks. Approaching this guy, stun grenade or not, was not necessary - it manufactured the risk. No one was in immediate danger here and he shouldn't have been approached. Just sit back and use less than lethal until he complies.