Arizona Pastor arrested and jailed for holding a bible study in his home?

[CPL_Primeaux]

Why is it a conspiracy?

Why is what a conspiracy? Im sorry , I dont understand what you mean .

 

[Hunh Bruh]

A quick search brings up a lot more to the story....
http://news4themasses.wordpress.com...ing-but-for-failing-to-obey-the-law/#comments

Omg! He's being persecuted!! OH NOES

The dirty jews and Muslims...

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

The way I understood the article was that the city had no problem with the church gathering, but it had to comply to fire code and other regulations.
I think there is more to the story. IF the guy was doing this on a regular basis, with a large number of people, then I think he had every intention of operating a "church", as defined by the law. Maybe the guy was simply trying to operate without having to deal with the hassle or costs of meeting the requirements for zoning and compliance. In which case, in my opinion, he is intentionally trying to bypass certain things by insisting his gatherings are something different in nature than they are. I'm a firm believer in freedom of religion, but I don't like when people abuse our fundamental rights in an effort to benefit themselves.

DONT GET ME WRONG! I'm not saying this was the case with this man. It's just my 'assumption' based on what I've read and my experience with human nature. Personally, My beliefs say that a church is any gathering of believers worshiping, whether 2 or 2,000, but that's just my belief.

How is operating a church without proper zoning treading on any ones right? Like I said, unless they are on your property or something I dont see anything wrong with it. The article never indicated they were treading on anyone. If it did I missed it.Unless they were intruding on someone else I dont see the problem . 20 cars on someone elses lawn is none of my business. Now if its 20 broke down cars stored in someones front lawn and zoning laws dont allow it then yeah , hes in the wrong. But a gathering on someone elses property is none of my business and it damn sure is none of the governments business, federal or local.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

Why is what a conspiracy? Im sorry , I dont understand what you mean .

You are so blinded by your hope that there is an anti christian conspiracy you refuse to look objectively.

Having been in combat, and through the army, I cannot understand why you believe in the media. The same media that says we are not wanted overseas by anyone and we do not make a difference

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

Omg! He's being persecuted!! OH NOES



The dirty jews and Muslims...

About to read this in a minute

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

You are so blinded by your hope that there is an anti christian conspiracy you refuse to look objectively.

Having been in combat, and through the army, I cannot understand why you believe in the media. The same media that says we are not wanted overseas by anyone and we do not make a difference

To an extent we all have to believe the media. I read the article(the first one) People are also responding so fast to this I am missing some of the other comments and links other people posted. I am working with the info I have read and that only and trying to skim through all the other links and stuff trying to find more info .

You asy you cant understand why I believe the media. Well then why would one link be more true than another? Everything linked here is some sort of media yet you believe one over the other?

Why is your media link more reliable than mine? Sure yours has a lot more info , but it could all be lies.... right ? Since I dont live in the state or know the guy personally I have to make my assumptions based off of what I read, would you say thats correct?

If I go by what you say , that media cant be trusted then every single thing we read on line is a potential lie. Hell I cant believe anything if thats the case. Not even the link you posted, that would be all lies as well. NO , to an extent we have to believe what the media puts out, even though there is alwasy another side(which I never denied there was) After reading the link you posted I attained more info on the subject and my opinion has changed some. Thats the thing though. I did not have all the info so had to react with what I had.

I guess you have not noticed, there is an anti christian conspiracy and its been going on a ling time. Im not a Christian , Im Jewish but we see articles about kids not being able to talk about God in school , but they have to learn the 5 pillars of Islam for extra credit.... I guess all that was a lie to since the media posted it.

 

[sandman7925]

So if your neighbor routinely had people over to read a bible you would call the cops? Now if he was doing it on a bull horn in his front yard maybe. From what I gather they were having a get together reading and talking about their faith .

Although I have never seen a street preacher get arrested and they annoy the hell out of me. But I would not think about calling the police on them for preaching on a corner.


"Phoenix City Prosecutor Vicki Hill said in a statement: *It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we ave concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire, and that’s really allt his comes down to.*


This is about Government thinking they can protect us better than we can protect ourselves while trying to make a buck .

It has nothing to do with religion to me. If any of my neighbors routinly have allot of guest yes I would contact the HOA and if need be the cops. I'm not talking about once or twice as everbody has company sometimes. But if it turned in to a habit (and every Sunday is a habit) I would not be happy

 

[BenCarp27]

How is operating a church without proper zoning treading on any ones right? Like I said, unless they are on your property or something I dont see anything wrong with it. The article never indicated they were treading on anyone. If it did I missed it.Unless they were intruding on someone else I dont see the problem . 20 cars on someone elses lawn is none of my business. Now if its 20 broke down cars stored in someones front lawn and zoning laws dont allow it then yeah , hes in the wrong. But a gathering on someone elses property is none of my business and it damn sure is none of the governments business, federal or local.

If you read the link posted by HB, it's pretty informative and contains a lot of information and facts that were collected.
The man has operated multiple churches, and had every intention of operating this as a church, not an independent bible study. He knew what he was doing, and the "bible study" just a scam to get around the hassles he didn't want to face. He called it a church. He had it filed as a 501c Church. His website listed it as a church, and gave his home address as the church address.
He knew what he was doing, and all the hooplah and "feel sorry for me" is just a way for him to use you and everyone else with Christian values to his advantage.
But you're never going to give, and I've read and seen too much to concede what I feel is the truth. So, it is what it is. It's just one issue in a world of many, and there is no sense in letting myself get fired up and potentially lose someone who could later become a friend.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

Why? Because common sense does not back up the conspiracy claims.

Of I bought into the media, you were at Abu Garaib with the rest of your buddies.

Once incident is not necessarily indicative of the whole

 

[Hunh Bruh]

And I know the army as a whole is pretty damn good

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

If you read the link posted by HB, it's pretty informative and contains a lot of information and facts that were collected.
The man has operated multiple churches, and had every intention of operating this as a church, not an independent bible study. He knew what he was doing, and the "bible study" just a scam to get around the hassles he didn't want to face. He called it a church. He had it filed as a 501c Church. His website listed it as a church, and gave his home address as the church address.
He knew what he was doing, and all the hooplah and "feel sorry for me" is just a way for him to use you and everyone else with Christian values to his advantage.
But you're never going to give, and I've read and seen too much to concede what I feel is the truth. So, it is what it is. It's just one issue in a world of many, and there is no sense in letting myself get fired up and potentially lose someone who could later become a friend.

I had missed that link at first, so many people were responding and I was trying to rad everyones comments I missed it. Hunh atricle does shed a lot of light. I think he was in the wrong at that point. He tried to sly around doing it the proper way .

I still think that anyone can have any kind of get together they want. My grandmother and her friends gathered at their houses every week (was a different house every week though) But if they did do it at the same house every week and a neighbor just didnt like the increased volume of traffic on the street, he can go to hell. As long as I am not treading on him I dont care how much someone doesnt like the extra cars in the area. Having an extra 20 cars once a week pass your house than what normally does is something that person will just have to deal with , I dont care if it would make them "un happy". Thats the point I was stuck on.

After getting the new info I agree with you guys 100% about this man. He was not the "poor pastor the articles I read made him out to be. I wasnt going to give because I couldnt find anything else about it. Yeah the guy was wrong.

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

It has nothing to do with religion to me. If any of my neighbors routinly have allot of guest yes I would contact the HOA and if need be the cops. I'm not talking about once or twice as everbody has company sometimes. But if it turned in to a habit (and every Sunday is a habit) I would not be happy

So people should be regulated as to how many people and how often they can visit? Im not even talking about the guy from the article at this point. From what I am understanding and correct me if I am wrong, Im not as sharp as I use to be. It sounds like someof you would get pissy if your neighbor had weekly company .

Maybe Im just use to being out in the country . I just think if someone wants to have 2 or even 100 people at their house , as long as they are not messing with me I could care less. I dont care if its an every day thing, just stay off my property and keep the noise down and Im good to go .

 

[Yrdawg]

A quick search brings up a lot more to the story....
http://news4themasses.wordpress.com...ing-but-for-failing-to-obey-the-law/#comments

This is more like an explanation I'd buy into.

 

[Russo]

i would be willing to bet that the authorities who enforce the zoning law, didn't raid the home to bust a Bible study.. it was probably an Agnostic neighbor who rode the fences of the property lines and when they found out they were having a Bible study, they did all they could to prevent further gatherings at the house... this is a perfect case where the governor should use her power to pardon...

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

i would be willing to bet that the authorities who enforce the zoning law, didn't raid the home to bust a Bible study.. it was probably an Agnostic neighbor who rode the fences of the property lines and when they found out they were having a Bible study, they did all they could to prevent further gatherings at the house... this is a perfect case where the governor should use her power to pardon...

Thats what I thought at first, then I saw the other link. I missed it trying to read all the other ****. Sorry guys, I just missed it . Flame the **** out me if you want but I just missed it.

I still feel the same about everything I said about regular company . I culd care less if my neighbors dont like extra traffic coming down there road, as long as we are not on their property and keep the noise down I dont see a problem . Thats the thing I have been bitching about. Thats my main thing. Yeah at first I thought this guy was being victimized so I was taking up for him . But doing the things he did as not just having company over.

He had a website and all , He was trying to run a church without having to have a church . It wasnt just a weekly bible get together.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

No problem. I just live and let live too. But sometimes people won't let me live like I want

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

No problem. I just live and let live too. But sometimes people won't let me live like I want

I hear that.

 

[Bayoupiper]

The photo in the link shows his home (that he bought for $750,000.00) before he added a "2,000 sqft building on his property that seats 142 people and decorated it as a *Church.*


That tells me this was no Wednesday night bible study.

Also from reading some of the court dockets and proceedings he's had against him, IMHO he appears to be one of these "pastors" that milks the religious loopholes in the tax laws to the fullest for his personal gain.





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[Hitman]

I'd be willing to bet it's all about this;

Does it look like an Emergency Vehicle could get through there speedily?

If my house burns down b/c your car was in the way, I'd be a little upset and you'd know it.

It's the same reason Block Parties get busted up. You have to have a PERMIT to impede Traffic.

When I lived in Ruston I attended a Bible Study on Thursdays at a guys house in a nice little subdivision. A Cop stopped by once and informed the owner of the house about what I mentioned above. He said it’s up to you but if you don’t mind just let them park on your lawn. So every study after that he set up a little parking lot with cones for everyone to park on his grass so as to not impede traffic by everyone parking on the side of the road in front of his house.

Either way, we should be mindful of the law. If your house and yard isn’t sufficient enough, you might have to think about having the study somewhere else.

 

[CPL_Primeaux]

I'd be willing to bet it's all about this;

Does it look like an Emergency Vehicle could get through there speedily?

If my house burns down b/c your car was in the way, I'd be a little upset and you'd know it.

It's the same reason Block Parties get busted up. You have to have a PERMIT to impede Traffic.

When I lived in Ruston I attended a Bible Study on Thursdays at a guys house in a nice little subdivision. A Cop stopped by once and informed the owner of the house about what I mentioned above. He said it’s up to you but if you don’t mind just let them park on your lawn. So every study after that he set up a little parking lot with cones for everyone to park on his grass so as to not impede traffic by everyone parking on the side of the road in front of his house.

Either way, we should be mindful of the law. If your house and yard isn’t sufficient enough, you might have to think about having the study somewhere else.

I agree, that photo would be a no go . I would be pissed if I were running into **** like that as well.