How to spot a fraud
- Thread starter Bayoupiper
- Start date
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DD's new rifle? Lol
**** I don't know, I would have guess a rifle lol .
I hear this one is well thought of in the shooting community..
Bill Rogers Shooting School.
General Information
We have been in the shooting instruction business for 25 years. The chief instructor, Bill Rogers, is a former FBI Agent, police instructor, successful inventor, and is well known in the shooting industry. Rogers has been a world ranked IPSC shooter, a state trap champion, and has over 40 years of shooting competition experience. Rogers has invented many of the holsters and equipment used by police and military worldwide. Some of the holsters and products Rogers has invented are available for purchase here: click here to buy Holsters. He also invented the target system and the method of instruction used at the school. The School’s Instructors, Ronnie Dodd, Adam Smith, David Campbell, Kyle Armstrong and Billy Lumpkin bring many years of instruction and real world experience to the school. Ronnie has been a Chief of Police, provided training for numerous foreign allied countries, and is an IDPA Master Class shooter. Adam is a SWAT commander and firearms instructor for the local Sheriff’s office. David is a firearms instructor and a technical range expert. Kyle is a Law Enforcement Officer with diverse experience and capabilities in Police Special Operations. He is an active SWAT Team Member, certified SWAT Master Instructor, Police Sniper Instructor, and Tactical Rappel Master. Billy Lumpkin is a retired Navy SEAL Officer with almost 24 years Active Duty service as an operator and instructor with numerous worldwide deployments, currently trains SWAT/SRT teams in the U.S. and consultant for a Global Security Firm. During his career he attained almost all special individual qualifications offered in the SPECOPs community including, SEAL Scout/Sniper, Free Fall Jumpmaster, Close Quarters Combat Range Officer-In-Charge and trained over 50 SEAL Task Units preparing them for their combat deployments teaching them the same shooting techniques he learned at Roger’s Shooting School.
Bill Rogers Shooting School.
General Information
We have been in the shooting instruction business for 25 years. The chief instructor, Bill Rogers, is a former FBI Agent, police instructor, successful inventor, and is well known in the shooting industry. Rogers has been a world ranked IPSC shooter, a state trap champion, and has over 40 years of shooting competition experience. Rogers has invented many of the holsters and equipment used by police and military worldwide. Some of the holsters and products Rogers has invented are available for purchase here: click here to buy Holsters. He also invented the target system and the method of instruction used at the school. The School’s Instructors, Ronnie Dodd, Adam Smith, David Campbell, Kyle Armstrong and Billy Lumpkin bring many years of instruction and real world experience to the school. Ronnie has been a Chief of Police, provided training for numerous foreign allied countries, and is an IDPA Master Class shooter. Adam is a SWAT commander and firearms instructor for the local Sheriff’s office. David is a firearms instructor and a technical range expert. Kyle is a Law Enforcement Officer with diverse experience and capabilities in Police Special Operations. He is an active SWAT Team Member, certified SWAT Master Instructor, Police Sniper Instructor, and Tactical Rappel Master. Billy Lumpkin is a retired Navy SEAL Officer with almost 24 years Active Duty service as an operator and instructor with numerous worldwide deployments, currently trains SWAT/SRT teams in the U.S. and consultant for a Global Security Firm. During his career he attained almost all special individual qualifications offered in the SPECOPs community including, SEAL Scout/Sniper, Free Fall Jumpmaster, Close Quarters Combat Range Officer-In-Charge and trained over 50 SEAL Task Units preparing them for their combat deployments teaching them the same shooting techniques he learned at Roger’s Shooting School.
I know I know, I was waiting for someone to start screaming at me!
a lot of great information in this thread folks. Pay attention.
SpeedRacer
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone can deny Rogers' highly regarded place in the industry.
$1200, travel expenses and 5 day classes is a hell of a commitment though.
BenCarp27
I feel like an old man...
Not to sound silly, but if I were an instructor, you can feel free to contact me about course content, class syllabus, range time and shooting info. If you are leery of the course, you could feel free to come sit in a portion of the course, without participating.
I would not, however, provide copies of my DD214. My privacy is my privacy. Most instructors have Facebook pages, websites, etc. Do your research ahead of time, and if you have concerns, you're more than welcome to call and we can discuss a myriad of concerns.
If you're an instructor, and business is so bad that you find yourself releasing personal information and other such things, just to guarantee a "sale", then you need to evaluate you business practices.
I personally would never ask someone for a copy of their DD214, and the only time I would ask for qualification info is if there was an issue with their instruction, at which point I'd probably have left, or be leaving, the class already.
Just my opinion.
I would not, however, provide copies of my DD214. My privacy is my privacy. Most instructors have Facebook pages, websites, etc. Do your research ahead of time, and if you have concerns, you're more than welcome to call and we can discuss a myriad of concerns.
If you're an instructor, and business is so bad that you find yourself releasing personal information and other such things, just to guarantee a "sale", then you need to evaluate you business practices.
I personally would never ask someone for a copy of their DD214, and the only time I would ask for qualification info is if there was an issue with their instruction, at which point I'd probably have left, or be leaving, the class already.
Just my opinion.
You kinda missed the point of my question. The police are often called to a location where a potential incident is going on. With conflict avoidance, I try to avoid those locations, when possible. So, I would think police and civilian mindsets would be a bit different. And why I asked the question.
I see a guy inside the local Qwickie Mart with a gun. Me, I back off, and call 911, who then send a police officer(s) to assess and possibly enter said Qwickie Mart... Me, with my gun and CHL, generally would have to rely on 911 for 'backup', where the police/military train and often work in teams. Conflict avoidance is not running and shooting over your shoulder.
SpeedRacer, thanks for the info, is pretty much in line with what I was thinking.
BenCarp27
I feel like an old man...
All debates aside, I think the article did a good job of outlining general rules of thumbs concerning firearms instruction. You're not going to apply every rule during your search for classes, and you're not go to use some at all. The only rule I don't agree with is asking for a DD214. If I'm at the point where I question the instructors honesty about his service, I'm usually at the point where I have already decided I won't be taking the class. Even if the said instructor produces a DD214 that confirms his history, if I had to ask, his personality and mine will most likely clash, and there is no point for paying for instruction that I will not absorb.
In general, I use the "Gun Show" rule when assessing individuals in the firearm world. If it sounds to good to be true, or something just doesn't sit right, chances are the 350lb former Ranger, who bailed out of 3 different C130s during the first Gulf War, and killed a man with his field radio, is probably as full of poop as I think he is. In my opinion, it's all about "fluff".
In general, I use the "Gun Show" rule when assessing individuals in the firearm world. If it sounds to good to be true, or something just doesn't sit right, chances are the 350lb former Ranger, who bailed out of 3 different C130s during the first Gulf War, and killed a man with his field radio, is probably as full of poop as I think he is. In my opinion, it's all about "fluff".
That takes too much effort..........most aren't willing to do that in today's day in age.
The Google is hard to find these days.
This is really an entirely desperate topic however since it came up I will through my 2 cents in; Any trainer worth your money should be tailoring his course to his audience. What I teach Armed Civilians is in some ways different then what I teach Cops or Soldiers. The mechanics once shooting starts are the same but what precedes and follows is different.
I posted this because of some of the questions that were asked in that other thread.
And from the response, it looks like folks are glad I did.
.
As it was stated, certificates may or may not mean anything. Okay.
Let's say this:
I am from the state of Washington. I've spent a level one style week maybe at Thunder Ranch or a three day weekend when Tom Givens was in town. I don't know, nothing or nobody particularly, but I do have a semi-sort of instruction. I'm looking to brush up on basics and advance a few skills. I don't know anyone in the state. I can't leave for the four-five minimum it'd take to visit the nationally recognized gun schools... I have a couple days, little tight on money so I want to maximize my learning experience. I don't have time or $ to make a mistake.
Google is okay, but I'm getting a lot of, well, this. He's great!!! He sucks!!! Internet research is a bust, doesn't lead me very far.
Me waving around six certificates from an independent, like Nate. (Sorry Nate, I know you're good!!!!) No, it doesn't mean much. Not really. Waving ten years of routine visits to the nationally recognized court appointed experts published in their died and as solidly vetted as one can possibly be... That's a big difference in proof of training for the trainer.
The course looks good.
It's just me but I don't quite understand why certificates don't matter. To me a few would make your instruction highly plausible. To me certificates that you've trained at these particular gun schools are part of credentials.
I was on the fence the DD214. My opinion was sort of like Ben's but if you are teaching a specialized class on gun trauma as a certified/licensed USArmy medic, wouldn't your DD214 be what you show to prove you aren't just someone who took a couple weekend first aid courses? Your DD214 here is the same as that MD certificate hanging in the doc's office.
I'm just trying to understand.
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