Lawmakers aim to curb military surplus program for police after Ferguson

[mpl006]

The equipment matters if you want to store it locally, sure.

On the numbers above for a laughably small agency, we'd need 140TB worth of hard drives to sustain a 30 day video log, and employ someone to install and maintain a secure intranet.

A quick visit to newegg puts the math at ~$9500.00 per agency for hardware alone, and ~$50k a year to install and staff it. Now multiply by Louisiana's 350 leo agencies.


Is the thread now really ending up with "don't use the (almost) free military gear that lasts decades, but go out and spend ~$20mil/year on this instead?". sheesh. I told people that this thread would end up positive and productive. I hate being this wrong this early in the morning.

First off, I never said anything about "don't use the (almost) free military gear that lasts decades, but go out and spend ~20mil/year on this instead." In fact I never said we should do this right now. I also never said that having the gear was a bad idea. What I said was that I feel it is a good idea but the tech isn't there yet. The same tech that could take that 32 GB per officer down to a manageable number, extend battery life and make it to were there was no added stress to an already stressful job.

I get the feeling that you feel if someone doesn't agree with you 100% when it comes to your view on LEO matters, that they are 100% against LEOs. That is kind of the point of discussion forums is to discuss with others that have more knowledge than you about a subject to expand both view points. I understand that you gave us your view point on your personal experience with current technology and were not thrilled by it, while also showing that it backed you up when someone was claiming something false about you. I also understand that I do not have first hand experience with either being a police officer or wearing a body camera and that is why I joined the discussion.

I know you don't know me but if you did you would know that I am not the kind of person who tries to tell others how to do their jobs or that they are doing them wrong, so if it came across as though I was doing that, I apologize. I do want to say thank you to you and all the other LEOs on here that do go out and put you lives on the line everyday for what amounts to peanuts.

 

[alpinehyperlite]

I could see a potential solution being to issue officers a camera and maybe a week's worth of SD cards. Friday afternoon you wipe last Monday's card to use when you get to work on Monday, etc. (assuming a 5 day work week) That way you'd keep a rolling backup in case issues come to light a few days after an incident occurs. Obviously if something happens, any major use of force, whatever, then you keep that day's card as evidence.

That's ~$250 per officer for storage, and whatever the camera costs. Still an expense, but I could see how it would work, and it would take a lot of the guess work out of these types of investigations. A hell of a lot cheaper than storing every second of every shift for every officer, too.

Granted you need somebody on staff to at least mark the important parts of what you keep. I sure as hell don't want to be the guy that has to watch every coffee stop, bathroom break, stupid joke, etc. lol

Yet another problem. If your filming a crime. That video is evidence of a crime. Must turn over to courts. No matter of its a seatbelt violation, or a school shooting.

Plus, my personal business is just that. If I need to talk to my wife on the phone about something, or take a ****, that is not going to be filmed. Ever.

 

[mpl006]

Those two words right there just destroyed it. Having that ability to edit the video in ANY way would cause the video to be voided.

Good point.

 

[madwabbit]

First off, I never said anything about "don't use the (almost) free military gear that lasts decades, but go out and spend ~20mil/year on this instead." In fact I never said we should do this right now. I also never said that having the gear was a bad idea. What I said was that I feel it is a good idea but the tech isn't there yet. The same tech that could take that 32 GB per officer down to a manageable number, extend battery life and make it to were there was no added stress to an already stressful job.

I get the feeling that you feel if someone doesn't agree with you 100% when it comes to your view on LEO matters, that they are 100% against LEOs. That is kind of the point of discussion forums is to discuss with others that have more knowledge than you about a subject to expand both view points. I understand that you gave us your view point on your personal experience with current technology and were not thrilled by it, while also showing that it backed you up when someone was claiming something false about you. I also understand that I do not have first hand experience with either being a police officer or wearing a body camera and that is why I joined the discussion.

I know you don't know me but if you did you would know that I am not the kind of person who tries to tell others how to do their jobs or that they are doing them wrong, so if it came across as though I was doing that, I apologize. I do want to say thank you to you and all the other LEOs on here that do go out and put you lives on the line everyday for what amounts to peanuts.

I never said anything about you being against leos? Can you please quote whatever I said that made you feel that way? I'm just pointing out the blatant inadequacies of the technology at hand. It's close enough to be possible and far enough out to be impractical, but yes- It's coming. I personally feel that its a matter of time. Once upon a time budgets considered whether or not radios or dashcams were worth the penny.

fyi My comment was targetting the timeline of the thread, not you directly. "Why do leo's need military trucks etc." Hence, the "dont take free stuff that lasts decades but drop 20mil on this project".


Appreciated comments by the way, but I don't even get the peanuts!

 

[mpl006]

Yet another problem. If your filming a crime. That video is evidence of a crime. Must turn over to courts. No matter of its a seatbelt violation, or a school shooting.

Plus, my personal business is just that. If I need to talk to my wife on the phone about something, or take a ****, that is not going to be filmed. Ever.

What happens at the end of the day to the dash cam videos?

 

[alpinehyperlite]

What happens at the end of the day to the dash cam videos?

Stored on hard drives wired into the vehicle, so it's power source as well as memory is housed elsewhere. But the difference in 15 5-10 minute stops and 12 hours of footage is huge. Not to mention the dash cams ate triggered as soon as lights are turned on, and are manually turned off by the LEO. Takes out the human error of failing to start recording. Not to mention we hear on the radio nightly that someone's camera or mic has gone down.

 

[Hitman]

Yea I'm just not being convinced of POV cameras.

I do like the idea of just better training.

More Training, Better Education for Officers of the Law.

From the LEO's that I know, some, if not most, get squat for training and education on law.

I absolutely HATE seeing an Officer get put on the spot by a person on the street
with more Law Knowledge than the Law Enforcer. I'm not saying College Level Stuff
but we all have seen those Officers, of course the one's that make it viral, that get
frustrated and then pissed off b/c they're being showed up. I'd love to see the opposite in return
which I have a few times, but not much.

More Training and Education. Less how to deal with SHTF, more prevention.

SHTF reactions are easier to learn and understand and train,
than working the lower half of the Continuum of Force BEFORE SHTF.

 

[kingfhb]

Officer privacy is definitely a concern and needs to be addressed before this can ever be implemented "officially". A means for the officer to shut off the camera for an alloted number of minutes throughout the day is a good way... or maybe implementing a call to dispatch to notify them when they turn it off and why and then when the turn it back on. Something.

I'm not sure how it would work when responding to a call from a homeowner and entering that persons home with it running. Would that be allowed? That could also be inturpreted as an invasion of privacy. A perp's house that you just entered on suspicion of something, sure.

Maybe they could make an emergency style "Pull tab" and make the cameras a one-time activate and then done. It would have to be turned into the department or a substation after that. Maybe even a unit that would "dock" in the vehicle and download any recorded footage to the storage system in the cruiser.

Obviously theres a lot more to it than just hanging a camera on an officer.

I do see it possibly helping with the HUGE amount of officer complaints by the general public when dealing with any officer. People will make complaints against an officer and just make up reasons that all get investigated and goes in that officers record. Such BS. Cameras would dissolve a lot of those claims.

I still say, if we must implement them... the cameras should be automatically activated when the officer pops the seat belt or leaves the vehicle. Then the officer could turn it off if need be... just like dash cams.

 

[mpl006]

Stored on hard drives wired into the vehicle, so it's power source as well as memory is housed elsewhere. But the difference in 15 5-10 minute stops and 12 hours of footage is huge. Not to mention the dash cams ate triggered as soon as lights are turned on, and are manually turned off by the LEO. Takes out the human error of failing to start recording. Not to mention we hear on the radio nightly that someone's camera or mic has gone down.

Understood. So they are kept for x amount of days and then written over or when the hard drive gets full they are swapped out?

FYI, I am now in the curious phase. Not trying to prove my point or make an argument for anything. This is a problem I have as an engineer that I want to know how things work. Sometimes I ask questions about things that I am not allowed to know about and get weird looks so if there is any sort of stuff you can't tell me, I understand.

 

[madwabbit]

Understood. So they are kept for x amount of days and then written over or when the hard drive gets full they are swapped out?

FYI, I am now in the curious phase. Not trying to prove my point or make an argument for anything. This is a problem I have as an engineer that I want to know how things work. Sometimes I ask questions about things that I am not allowed to know about and get weird looks so if there is any sort of stuff you can't tell me, I understand.

the stuff we use (all of it) is made, maintained, and operated by humans.... and as a result is imperfect.

Regarding setup- I don't personally feel comfortable broadcasting the details, but trust me when I say that its very, very different. Your question is not unlike saying "cars have 4 wheels. H1's have 4 wheels. Why can't cars do what H1's can do?" It's just very, very different.

 

[mpl006]

the stuff we use (all of it) is made, maintained, and operated by humans.... and as a result is imperfect.

Regarding setup- I don't personally feel comfortable broadcasting the details, but trust me when I say that its very, very different. Your question is not unlike saying "cars have 4 wheels. H1's have 4 wheels. Why can't cars do what H1's can do?" It's just very, very different.

Very much understood on all parts. Not sure of the reason for the first sentence?

I'm OK with keeping things secret, to a degree, and this is one of those that I am fine with. Honestly at this point, with alpine making mention of the evidence side of things, I just got curious. I truly was not trying to correlate the dash cam recording setup with the body cam.

 

[bigtattoo79]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but who the **** do you think we deal with all day everyday? BS members? We deal with the worst of the worst society has to offer when you or yours call for help, cut us some ****ing slack. We deserve to be as safe as we can within reason. I hardly think a multi-strike plate is to much to ask for when some ******* is shooting your kid's school up.

WOW! What dept do you work for?



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[madwabbit]

It was in reference to where you bolded the bit where alpine stated that radios etc often malfunction. = our gear is imperfect

 

[mpl006]

It was in reference to where you bolded the bit where alpine stated that radios etc often malfunction. = our gear is imperfect

I thought that may have been it. I bolded the wrong part and forgot to unbold it. I went back and unbolded it after I realized it.

 

[Vsotok10]

Everyone is missing the obvious solution to storage. Just have video immediately uploaded to the officer's Facebook page.

 

[ta2d_cop]

WOW! What dept do you work for?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The agency is not really relevant, but...

I'm on a NOLA Metro area task force investigating felony cases. I get to deal with the finest the area has to offer...finest criminals, that is. I don't do patrol work so 80%+ of my contact is with suspects, most of whom have impressive criminal resumes and about half of whom are already wanted felons. My victim contact is limited to first contact to verify report info and update or disposition contact.

I will say that the patrol contacts were usually pretty pleasant, there was always the 10% rule, but even most of my perp contacts were pretty kosher. My current position has changed that quite a but, but I wouldn't change it.

It ain't all plate carriers an bang stick all day every day, but when the intel calls for it, out it comes. That **** is heavy and crazy uncomfortable so it ain't everyday wear.